[2.3] Thundercane: Mjolner Uber Atziri Farmer

Hi, i saw your claim about "can do elemtal reflect map mod".

Can you post a video of you doing a red reflect map please?
Simply because i have the better resistances on my mjolner build with surgeons perma flask uptime and purty auras and barely can do reflect maps when flasks are down.

And id like to do some clarification about your "Why use Resolute Technique" part, personally i feel that there is a lot of misinformation there:

Lets start with "the fact that crit builds has 85% hit chance". My current crit Juggerbuild has 93% chance to hit.

Followed by "RT yields a much higher DPS". I wont go into full math here as you can see that someone already proven to you that Elemtal overload is more dps than RT. And "much higher DPS" than crit is exaggerated at best. If taken considerations of not just what happens with the mechanics of mjolner itself but also add in the constant hits of moltenstrike projectiles which produce power charges aswell it leads to a measruable result that RT is inferior to a crit build in terms of dps.

"its not worth to run a crit build" how do you know? You did not list any reasons for it other than assuming some numbers for crit chance/multi which are relativley low. But the most important thing about crit builds is not the damage its the perma flask uptime of resist flasks leading to more tankiness at uber. For example: 94% fire/88% cold/93% light res is easily possible and even more on decent gear with crit perma uptime flasks. You can have between 80k and 100k armour in jade/granite flask setup aswell. I found to be that these are reasons very well worth to go crit especially if your claim is that this build is an "uber farmer". I dont know if those 5k life from your guide represent the reality of how much life you currently have but everything below 6k life/eHP nowadays is like low.

About "7 to 10 extra points" required for crit, yea its true but when i see you wasting 18-20 points to go into the shadow area to get those 40% aura effect id say you could get that 1% max resist easier with crit. infact you could get up to 6% max resist more with perma surgeons flask uptime.

To give you some feedback:

I dont wanna tell you how to write guides. But there are some general no go's id say. One is claming that something the writer have choosen for his build is best in general although proven by the public is not. The example would be "RT is best dps". Id go with you and say RT is the safest option to always have endurance charges up for immortal call to trigger/dmg reduction purposes. Unfortnuately you havent brought this reasoning in your RT part at all.
One more point is that you are focusing too much on uber atziri - like there are atleast 3 juggernaut mjolner build guides that can do uber better/faster/less dangerous AND have videos to back that up.


About the double discharge part:

Its true what rico says regarding double discharge + fire pen, its the highest damage setup in your 3 gem slots you can have as juggernaut against bosses. Believe it or not. Personally i prefer arc for mapping but against core malachai or atziri double discharge fire pen is the most dps choice there is at the moment.

I hope you take this as positive feedback not as offensive.

Just because a build is different doesn't mean it is bad or inferior. Crit builds have more DPS and less Tank whereas RT builds have more Tank and less DPS. Like you said, Crit builds rely on flasks to make up for the less Tank. This build relies on a sulphur flask to make up for the less DPS. The two builds simply go about things in different ways, neither is way is wrong. I prefer to use RT because, frankly, I don't care too much for the Crit variant, but you don't see me going onto Crit Mjolner threads complaining about it.

This is a build guide and there is always going to be variation. I have no intention of misleading people when I say what is most optimal for this build. With most of the build guides I've seen on this forum, I see "better dps than" or "fastest clears" etc but I do not whine about it when it's not. People don't complain to the chef when their pizzas aren't the "best pizzas in town." This is a build guide and what I write on it is 100% honestly what I believe to be true on THIS Thundercane build. It may not be the case on your build, but I've tested it and it works better.

Resolute Technique works better on Thundercane (not your build, not Rico's build) because of how the tree and build works.
Double Discharge does not work better on Thundercane, I have tried it. It may work better on your build, but not mine.

My most important point: If you think something is better, then please just use what you want. I'm not gonna care what you change.

What I say here is what I have tried out with my build and I stand by it. I truly believe RT is better. I truly believe Double Discharge does not work. I have seen it myself with this build and that is why I do not use it in this build. If you have a problem with it, don't use it. It's that simple.

I find it anoying that people attack this build and guide. This build is not pretending to be anything its not. Its a realy tanky build whit realy good dps. It combines some realy nice keystones and synergies from gear. And it can farm uber reliably.

The person who put the effort into creating the guide help you out if you have questions and is nice about it.

I just want to say im realy thankfull for the guide and help i have goten, and i have played a lot of mjølner builds, discharge builds etc, but this is the one i have enjoyd the most so far, i feel it has a great balance of insane defence combined whit realy powerfull offence :) so ty for this amazing guide and keep up the great work!

Thank you so much for your support Furywrath, I really appreciate it! I'm going to do some more testing with double discharge. Mark's comment regarding it seems to make sense, but it does not seem to match up with the comparison between 1 discharge and 2 supports.

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Dimensi0n wrote:

I prefer to use RT because, frankly, I don't care too much for the Crit variant, but you don't see me going onto Crit Mjolner threads complaining about it.

I did not complain at all just pointed out that a crit build has the potential to be a lot more tankier than yours. Tankiness is a very important property to beat uber. Either tankiness or high dps.

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Dimensi0n wrote:

This is a build guide and there is always going to be variation. I have no intention of misleading people when I say what is most optimal for this build. With most of the build guides I've seen on this forum, I see "better dps than" or "fastest clears" etc but I do not whine about it when it's not. People don't complain to the chef when their pizzas aren't the "best pizzas in town." This is a build guide and what I write on it is 100% honestly what I believe to be true on THIS Thundercane build. It may not be the case on your build, but I've tested it and it works better.

double discharge with fire pen is not equivlanet to the "best pizza in town" which is subjective, I tried to be more objective like if you want to kill the hardest bosses in the game in the fastest way than "double discharge is the standard." i have tried a pure life mjolner build, aim deep's block rf build and my own personal RF/EB/MOM/CRIT build and no matter what gem setup double discharge is simply the best for dps at bosses.

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Dimensi0n wrote:

Resolute Technique works better on Thundercane (not your build, not Rico's build) because of how the tree and build works.
Double Discharge does not work better on Thundercane, I have tried it. It may work better on your build, but not mine.

My most important point: If you think something is better, then please just use what you want. I'm not gonna care what you change.

About double discharge: its what I and others said previsously no matter if crit or not, double discharge is independant of that. The best damage setup you can have at bosses is double discharge with fire pen as juggernaut.
About resolute technique it is okay if you claim it is "better" the problem i have here that you dont state in your guide in what way it is "better". What you state in terms of DPS that RT is better than crit is simply wrong there lies my problem.

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Dimensi0n wrote:

What I say here is what I have tried out with my build and I stand by it. I truly believe RT is better. I truly believe Double Discharge does not work. I have seen it myself with this build and that is why I do not use it in this build. If you have a problem with it, don't use it. It's that simple.

i have no problem of you doing your build of which you think is good, its okay the way it is. Nedless to say that I use my own build which tanked atziri uber double flameblast without block or dodge stuff. This was when i had an inqusitor. Things look a bit different from a juggernaut's perspective (more tankiness).

Edit: Im a bit disappointed that you havent said a word about being "elemtal reflect map mod" immune nor posted a video about it. Since its another claim that sounds wrong except you are using some block jewels. From your guide its not visible that you use any block jewels.

When I say that RT is better, zzang, I am talking about RT vs Crit the Thundercane build. I do not mean RT is better than Crit in the general sense when comparing all Mjolner builds. I think you've misinterpreted, I meant this specifically for this build. Thundercane is required to go all around the tree for the aura nodes and it simply makes more sense to go RT than Crit because the Thundercane build can get more DPS off of RT instead of Crit. I am not applying this to Mjolner builds in general, only to Thundercane. I am sorry if that confused you, I will change it.

Regarding double discharge, I will continue to test this because Mark's description of the mechanics behind it actually make sense and he does in fact have the most knowledge of it than anyone. When I had tested this previously, I did not see a significant DPS change. Perhaps it is there and maybe I am just biased towards it.

Regarding "positive feedback", I do like getting feedback from you guys, but the way Rico acts as though I am inferior to him and how he shoves his build guide in my face begging him to read it is not what I call "positive feedback." I appreciate his effort but cannot deal with his attitude and his presumptuous manner.

zzang, I am glad that you commented about these "problems" with my build in a much more humble manner than Rico. I will continue to test them out some more and perhaps they will change my build. I appreciate that your feedback does not talk down to me, it is much easier to respond to. Although Rico may be right about these matters, I just could not deal with the way he was presenting it.

I like that you havent took this feedback as offesnive. Just for information to all people that read guides: In the moment of 2.3 there is no "best" kind of mjolner there is either the best defensive mjolner guide or the best offesinve guide. There cant be a build which is the most defensive and most dps build at the same time. Its a decision making that everyone has to do for oneself.

Have to say after reading all the comments i switched to Rico's build. And mainly because I was concerned with the lack of understanding of game mechanics and how you got overly butt hurt when he tried to explain with known facts to help you. Was really a major turn off for me. I hope the build works well for people but is better for the community as a whole to correct misleading information thats been provided.

Oh I'm sorry that I made an error, lunatic. I forgot that humans don't make errors. I hope you enjoy Rico's build.

Being a relatively new-ish player in PoE, I have absolutely no understanding what-so-ever about the apparent "discussion" going on here, but the way I see it, Rico has his build, fine, good for him, you have yours, which is great.

Diversity is exactly what makes this game so beautiful. And to see salt being spewed en-masse in this thread, really makes me sad, because to be honest, it's a fantastic build.

Obviously, I don't have the play-time, nor the experience to offer any sort of "constructive input", but I am currently using this build, having a lot of fun with it, and even before the uber lab, I am having no problems sustaining health. Mana seems to be an issue, even tho I have a leech ring + the +2 mana per hit jewel equipped, but I bypass this with a pot. Simple as that.

To make a long story short;
Thanks for creating this build, Dimensi0n. It has boatloads of potential, already from it's early stages. The explosions are super fun to watch, as enemies simply melt by your mere presence.

Once I manage to defeat uber-lab, and get a bit higher level, I'll definitely be posting some videos you can include in the build thread! :)

EDIT: If possible, would you mind taking a look at my characters passive tree? I seem to be forced to take the extra int points next to the Elementalist keystone(The 12% All-res) in order to equip Mjolner =/