Place all traps in Twilight Strand

First, this is not a ragequit and I'll try to expose what is no more than an opinion of a player.

Why should one spend hours theory-crafting a build, then spend all free time for a weeks developing it (leveling, gearing) to suddenly be faced with something that stops being an ARPG and becomes an arcade game where all your effort before gets totally irrelevant?

I've lost count how many rips I've had, but I'm ok with then, because they served as lessons to improve my builds and be more prepared. But not with traps - a split second miscalculation or lag and there goes all that time invested. This is not about learning or improving - it is like getting a slap in the face.

So, a suggestion: why not put all those traps in twilight strand, normal? If players manage to succeed to pass then, they get the reward of playing an actual ARPG.
Alternatively, make a new game "Path Of Traps" and put then all there. No build developing skills required, no leveling and no gear also.

One more thing: until now I've managed to tolerate the trials and lab in the 3 difficulties. But the trials to the endgame lab? No, sory.

I've been around for a bit and saw GGG made very good improvements to POE. They listen to players, even if things sometimes take time. I like POE, otherwise I would not be writing this post.
I just hope POE will change back to a game where all players can say its fun and entertaining.

"

fm1081 wrote:

First, this is not a ragequit and I'll try to expose what is no more than an opinion of a player.

Why should one spend hours theory-crafting a build, then spend all free time for a weeks developing it (leveling, gearing) to suddenly be faced with something that stops being an ARPG and becomes an arcade game where all your effort before gets totally irrelevant?

I've lost count how many rips I've had, but I'm ok with then, because they served as lessons to improve my builds and be more prepared. But not with traps - a split second miscalculation or lag and there goes all that time invested. This is not about learning or improving - it is like getting a slap in the face.

So, a suggestion: why not put all those traps in twilight strand, normal? If players manage to succeed to pass then, they get the reward of playing an actual ARPG.
Alternatively, make a new game "Path Of Traps" and put then all there. No build developing skills required, no leveling and no gear also.

One more thing: until now I've managed to tolerate the trials and lab in the 3 difficulties. But the trials to the endgame lab? No, sory.

I've been around for a bit and saw GGG made very good improvements to POE. They listen to players, even if things sometimes take time. I like POE, otherwise I would not be writing this post.
I just hope POE will change back to a game where all players can say its fun and entertaining.

Hell yeah Batman! :D
I agree on the overall message that you are conveying. A lot of people voiced, and continue to voice that the LAB diverges from ARPG substantially and that is mostly done like any other chore, so you can as fast as possible continue with normal gameplay.

Some people enjoy the lab, and i see some streamers run the uber one now. Just yesterday i watched etup do the lab 35 times, and in those runs on multiple occasions he commented that its shit.
I offhandedly commented before the prophecy that it will be the death of poe. I was somewhat right, because for a lot of people it certainly is. Bad league combined with more LAB is driving people away. And so much RNG... now even the lab is gated behind RNG and prophecies are a shameful RNG clown fiesta.

I try daily to play poe, make new chars... and it pushes me away with the silliness of it all.

TLDR
I agree.

you do not have to do endgame lab - if you are not ready/happy with it - just skip it. it is YOU who pushes you to complete it. ask yourself why YOU (not others, YOU) needed to attempt a content you are uncomfortable with and do not like it.

also - id like to remind you all that Ascendancy points are REWARDS for a challenge. you are not up to the task - you have only YOURSELF to blame. the trials (that you most likely bruteforced - because 'they are waste of time') are there to let you learn this stuff. some can do that. some cannot.

for me the lab (esp uber lab) is a perfect end-end-game challenge. it is a good test of both build and personal skill. sure, you can cheeze it. but you can do the same with Uber Queen. and the rewards (for people that measure 'fun' with 'rewards they get for doing all things') are pretty damn sweet.


people do not like challenges. they like free loot, instant rewards and something to enforce their extremely high self esteem (im a winner i can speedrun gorges 24/7!). when faced with anything that tests that - aggression.

reading lab-haters (there are not that many btw) one can compile a list of what is not fun in POE:

- challenges
- effort
- choices

"

fm1081 wrote:

Why should one spend hours theory-crafting a build, then spend all free time for a weeks developing it (leveling, gearing) to suddenly be faced with something that stops being an ARPG and becomes an arcade game where all your effort before gets totally irrelevant?

while you're asking a good question, you forget one thing: poe is ggg's game, not ours. they want to take poe further away from being a pure arpg game, and considering how much dev effort they've already drowned on it it's not going away.

it all boils down to this: why the hell would ggg even add labyrinth in the first place? why would they consciously deviate poe from the arpg genre?

"

sidtherat wrote:

reading lab-haters (there are not that many btw)

stop spreading lies. i can deal with you being wrong about rinth being optional content, considering ggg has said they'll balance game around players having ascendancy points (i'm sure you have some brilliantly flawed comment for that as well) and all the other shit you sprout, but seriously. stop lying and trying to tell people that there's not many labyrinth haters. there are.

and if you still want to keep lying about there not being many rinth haters, why don't you compile posts that are pro-lab and i'll compile ones for anti-lab?

OH RIGHT, IT'D BE THE VOCAL MINORITY NO MATTER WHAT.

ggg places challenges and prophecies inside labyrinth, sees people run labyrinth and think "oh wow, people must really like the labyrinth!" NO FUCK YOU I DON'T, i run it to clear the challenges/prophs and get the MANDATORY points that the game is being balanced around.

//endrant

Sid is a lost cause, don't bother. He thinks playing Mario with infinite-lives-cheat on is challenging.
Meanwhile i am playing Mario with one life and i am telling you there is nothing challenging in the lab, just know which platform to jump to in any given moment. Get it? Platform.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

Sid is a lost cause, don't bother. He thinks playing Mario with infinite-lives-cheat on is challenging.
Meanwhile i am playing Mario with one life and i am telling you there is nothing challenging in the lab, just know which platform to jump to in any given moment. Get it? Platform.

\


Because your an expert on the lab?

"

goetzjam wrote:

Because your an expert on the lab?

Ran the lab 100s of times, didn't like it much the first time, and i still think it is a big piece of shit now. With the introduction of the uber lab, i actually am hating even the idea of making another character as it would mean having to run the lab several times.

-What actually makes someone an expert in the lab ?
i have carried full groups through , does that make me an expert?

It isn't that the encounters are hard for norm.cruel,merc that makes me hate the lab. It is the game play involved in it. Rush through to find the next area, meeting up with some poor layouts at times. Hit a large trap area that some of my builds have to go through extremely slowly which kills the fun for me.

You can say that the uber lab is optional, but being that the game is being balanced around the ascendancy power creep, that would be inaccurate.

the 4th lab just forces you to slog through maps to find an entrance fee that only drops for the character you first entered map in. So then i am stuck to either sacrifice a bunch of xp on a char not suited for labs, or miss out on the entrance fee. It is just bad design here. Then the lab itself is just full of annoyances that slow you down, or make you take unfair amounts of damage with no place safe to stand (affects more on hybrid or es builds).

GGG continues to call it a minority, but fears to actually set out a poll to back up this claim.
One can only guess it is because with nothing official they can call the majority a minority all they want.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

Sid is a lost cause, don't bother. He thinks playing Mario with infinite-lives-cheat on is challenging.
Meanwhile i am playing Mario with one life and i am telling you there is nothing challenging in the lab, just know which platform to jump to in any given moment. Get it? Platform.

\


Because your an expert on the lab?

I am an expert on Mario, that makes me an expert on lab, so yea.

I started my post stating that I was trying to expose what was no more than my opinion as a player, but thanks sidtherat for pointing that out.
But please dont assume that I bruteforced anything, dislike challenges, want free loot or instant rewards - you're speaking without knowledge and may very well be wrong.

Build was not making speedrun gorges, it had just begun doing maps (3rd map when found that trial). Was a balanced build. Upon entering the trial, gameplay changed totally. I mean, rooms and rooms straight with nothing more than unavoidable traps? In HC, I dont call that a challenge. I call it a weeks of playing time down the drain.

Now, I could level a build again, reach lvl 70+ and get another shot at trials. Maybe I should go to softcore, but then again, maybe no.
Now, as you refer "waste of time" (I didn't wrote that btw), you must be somehow confused. If I thought POE is a "waste of time" I would not be playing it in all my free time as I did. I also like to play HC and dont rush through content. To me, the best reward is to see the build I theorycrafted work.

Yes, I suppose that is the way GGG choose. Maybe I should not had wrote this post.
I dont hope my opinion matters much and I dont speak for anyone except for myself, but I sure dont like that someone else speeks about me making wrong assumptions.

"

fm1081 wrote:

So, a suggestion: why not put all those traps in twilight strand, normal? If players manage to succeed to pass then, they get the reward of playing an actual ARPG.
Alternatively, make a new game "Path Of Traps" and put then all there. No build developing skills required, no leveling and no gear also.

That's actually hilarious and best idea I've heard so far! lol

Get ready:
- Minesweeper mini-game coming to PoE in 2.4. Clear hardest level board below 50 seconds before you can equip items.
- FPS in 2.5, you gotta kill 20 players in a row with a headshot before you can put gems into your socket.
- RTS in 2.6, gotta kill them Zergs before allocating any skill point.