Mechanical Questions Thread

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BlackPersian wrote:

What happens, when I use Vaal Molten Shell and have normal Molten Shell on CWDT. If CWDT procs, will the normal Molten Shell overwrite the Vaal Molten Shell?

As a normal cast, when you have an active Vaal Molten Shell and cast a normal Molten Shell your Vaal Molten Shell disappears and normal one getting activated. If you use both with Cwdt i think it will always cast the closer link first and other linked one/s after the first cast. That means first link will always be wasted. And the others before the last one of course.

For example; if you have a 3 socket/linked item and if you link cwdt with vms + ms, the closer one will always be wasted and other one's duration will start after disappear.

Question about the mechanics of the Fireborn jewel. Converts damage to fire. So if a node inside the radius says for instance "20% increased physical damage with two handed weapons", it becomes increased fire damage with two handed weapons?

Following this, the increased fire damage while i am holding a 2H weapon will benefit both attacks and/or spells right?

Thanks.

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KTP29 wrote:

Question about the mechanics of the Fireborn jewel. Converts damage to fire. So if a node inside the radius says for instance "20% increased physical damage with two handed weapons", it becomes increased fire damage with two handed weapons?

Yes

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Following this, the increased fire damage while i am holding a 2H weapon will benefit both attacks and/or spells right?.

No, "with Weapons" means Attacks only; attacks are the ones that use Weapon base stats (hence "with Weapons") while Spells have their own base stats and don't depend on the weapon for any of it (hence not "with Weapons")

EDIT: There does exist wording for what you probably thought would happen which is "while Wielding" but this has no interaction with Fireborn. If there were a node that said x% increased physical damage while Wielding Y, it would benefit physical attacks and spells without fireborn, and fire attacks and spells with fireborn. But I don't think such a node exists so this note is purely philosophical.

I'm doing some theory crafting with EO and molten strike and have a few questions about when accuracy and crit are rerolled.

Suppose I'm fighting an isolated boss with no adds and have molten strike with 12 balls and multistrike but no diamond flask.

• For the melee attack, do I get one roll per mana drain (one roll shared by 3 multistrike melee attacks) or a separate roll for each melee attack?
• Does each ball get its own roll? I'm reasonably sure the answer is no, all balls from a melee hit share the same roll.
• Do the balls procced from a melee attack share the same roll as the melee attack, or do they get their own roll?
• If the balls get a separate roll from the melee attacks, does it roll once per mana drain (36 balls share the same roll) or once per melee attack (each wave of 12 balls shares the same roll)?
• Do the two accuracy rolls and the one crit always reroll at the same time, or do they have different rules?

One thing that is clear is that balls can crit, so critting doesn't require a melee hit: I can proc EO by having a PvP opponent stand at the very edge of my molten strike AoE, well outside the melee hit range.

I recorded some video last night in PvP but the average hits to proc EO under various setups isn't matching any of my mental models, so I'm not sure if all those models are wrong or if I just need more data.

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MoldyDwarf wrote:

I'm doing some theory crafting with EO and molten strike and have a few questions about when accuracy and crit are rerolled.

Suppose I'm fighting an isolated boss with no adds and have molten strike with 12 balls and multistrike but no diamond flask.

• For the melee attack, do I get one roll per mana drain (one roll shared by 3 multistrike melee attacks) or a separate roll for each melee attack?
• Does each ball get its own roll? I'm reasonably sure the answer is no, all balls from a melee hit share the same roll.
• Do the balls procced from a melee attack share the same roll as the melee attack, or do they get their own roll?
• If the balls get a separate roll from the melee attacks, does it roll once per mana drain (36 balls share the same roll) or once per melee attack (each wave of 12 balls shares the same roll)?
• Do the two accuracy rolls and the one crit always reroll at the same time, or do they have different rules?

One thing that is clear is that balls can crit, so critting doesn't require a melee hit: I can proc EO by having a PvP opponent stand at the very edge of my molten strike AoE, well outside the melee hit range.

I recorded some video last night in PvP but the average hits to proc EO under various setups isn't matching any of my mental models, so I'm not sure if all those models are wrong or if I just need more data.

1) Mana cost/drain values can be calculated with "Mana multiplier" of the gem. And multistrike cost is for 1 hit, others are "multi" which means additional hits. So for example if you link mana leech with molten strike, you will leech from initial hit/s and also balls but you will spend only your total gem mana cost for once for every multi hit (as u said 3 hits for 1 hit cost + mana multiplier).

2) If the initial hit crit, so the balls. If its not, balls are doing the same.

3) Balls may be buffed with projectile nodes/passives. That means their damage can be different than your hit if you buff them more with projectile buffs and fire damage and bla bla bla. If you buff them more you should go for full crit multiplier projectile build which is fucking insane.

4) Leeching all the shit on the one multistrike and rolling them on your initial hit + projectile buffs and elemental buffs and crit multipliers and your body lotions.

5)

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someone wrote:

"It should be noted that Lightning Strike's projectiles always hit if the melee succeeds in hitting; if the melee does not hit, each projectile is rolled for accuracy. Molten Strike should be expected to work in a similar manner."

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Vipermagi wrote:

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Jideament wrote:

2) If the initial hit crit, so the balls. If its not, balls are doing the same.

Assuming both have the same Crit Chance, then yes. Melee-specific Crit Chance (such as the Disemboweling cluster) only applies to the Melee strike however, which would lead to different Crit Chances.

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Crit is rolled once for the entire Skill use, including repeats, projectiles, chains, everything. This roll is checked against the Crit threshold for each individual Hit. If the threshold check passes, a second Chance to Hit roll is made to 'confirm' the Crit.

(threshold explained w/ numbers)

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"It should be noted that Lightning Strike's projectiles always hit if the melee succeeds in hitting; if the melee does not hit, each projectile is rolled for accuracy. Molten Strike should be expected to work in a similar manner."

Lightning Strike explicitly mentions this in its description - Molten Strike does not. As such, Molten Strike does not share this behaviour.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. One crit and and the two acc rolls per mana drain. All 3 melee hits and all 36 balls share the same rolls. Whether any individual of the 39 chances to hit or crit actually happens still depends on various thresholds, mob evasion, etc.

for some reason, I'm finding that molten burst does not leech any life if I put life leech on the Ngamahu's flame axe and do cyclone. Also, even with the vitality void node, it doesn't seem to leech. Is it not supposed to leech? Or am I doing something wrong? I find that cyclone leeches fine though. The bursts themselves don't seem to leech.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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CupcakeKitty wrote:

Can a rare monster naturally spawn with both Elemental Reflect and Physical Reflect at the same time? I know that there are different visual aura's to represent each one, but can a mob naturally have both at the same time?

I have never seen a Rare monster spawn with both.
Way back when, the Reflect mod was an Aura, and Rare monsters can only have one Aura. I believe Reflect still falls under this same category.

I'm looking for a response from a game developer. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest you can only spawn one at a time but is there some concrete evidence to this?

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CupcakeKitty wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

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CupcakeKitty wrote:

Can a rare monster naturally spawn with both Elemental Reflect and Physical Reflect at the same time? I know that there are different visual aura's to represent each one, but can a mob naturally have both at the same time?

I have never seen a Rare monster spawn with both.
Way back when, the Reflect mod was an Aura, and Rare monsters can only have one Aura. I believe Reflect still falls under this same category.

I'm looking for a response from a game developer. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest you can only spawn one at a time but is there some concrete evidence to this?

Monster mods and item mods have many similar features. Magic/Rare/Unique monsters are crafted monsters and they cant get 2 same type mod/aura. Only some mods like local attack/cast speed and aura speed mods can stack together like items (for example jewels can have 3 attack speed mods with different type of buff like -with x weapon type) but still they are different mod types.