[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice Elementalist - Viable for Everything

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Kelemn wrote:

Is temporal chain mandatory ?

I find it perform well with two signet

3rd curse (TC) is not mandatory. You can do fine with just WM and Enfeeble. TC makes the build safer in general, but it's most noticeable at the very top level - Core, T15 Daresso, T14 Piety, Uber Vaal/Trio. Malachai in particular played a large role in convincing me that TC is worth sacrificing some ES and DPS for. If you do Core, do it twice with similar mods and compare the difficulty of Malachai with 2 and 3 curses. But if you don't plan on doing the top tier stuff then you can drop TC and either Whispers of Doom or Doedre's ring and go with more ES and DPS. Of course, you don't really need that extra ES and DPS for lower targets.

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Madgod wrote:

On CWDT setup with enfeeble an Immortal call what LVL should CWDT be?

For the dual-curse version (no TC), you add Enfeeble to the lv 20 CWDT - IC link. Since dropping TC (and Ball, and CoH) frees up some gems, you can add Inc Duration to that link as well (not as much for Enfeeble but for IC).

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Ziiyo wrote:

So after the 5linking I am having problems with the curse setup. Curse on hit I have two one higher level and one under my CWDT level. I know orb of storms doesnt work with this setup so dont worry about that one.

Problem is I would assume ball lightning and curse should proc on CWDT, yet I tried over 10 times in the middle of packs and the only curse that applies is my blasphemy + warlords mark. I cannot seem to get enfeeble to proc.

The curse on hit should be fine at a higher level than CWDT? and I have also tried with a lower version, still no help.

EDIT: when i pull out Curse on Hit, enfeeble procs as per normal but not from ball lightning.

Side Note: does ball lightning proc discord or do you have to manually cast a lightning spell?

Anyone?

Your Enfeeble is lower level (45) than your CWDT (46), and it's placed closer to CWDT than Ball Lightning too. This means that your CWDT triggers Enfeeble first, and only triggers Ball Lightning if you take more damage within a very short time after triggering Enfeeble.

You should be using CWDT lv 1, Ball Lightning lv 4, CoH and curses lv 20/20. That's the benefit of this setup compared to the dual-curse version where you link Enfeeble directly to CWDT: applying high level enhanced curses on small hits.

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Ziiyo wrote:

but is it this strong :O

Going to run this when I hit 91 but pretty sure the boss will kill me! Those crits will hurt so bad...

I hope you fix your broken CWDT curse setup before going there. Also, I recommend practicing on the single Core Malachai a few times before going for the twinned version with mods. Check my notes in the Q&A post too. It may look easy in my video, but I've done it dozens of times. It won't be quite as smooth without good practice.

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Kelvynn wrote:

"

Kelemn wrote:

Is temporal chain mandatory ?

I find it perform well with two signet

3rd curse (TC) is not mandatory. You can do fine with just WM and Enfeeble. TC makes the build safer in general, but it's most noticeable at the very top level - Core, T15 Daresso, T14 Piety, Uber Vaal/Trio. Malachai in particular played a large role in convincing me that TC is worth sacrificing some ES and DPS for. If you do Core, do it twice with similar mods and compare the difficulty of Malachai with 2 and 3 curses. But if you don't plan on doing the top tier stuff then you can drop TC and either Whispers of Doom or Doedre's ring and go with more ES and DPS. Of course, you don't really need that extra ES and DPS for lower targets.


For the dual-curse version (no TC), you add Enfeeble to the lv 20 CWDT - IC link. Since dropping TC (and Ball, and CoH) frees up some gems, you can add Inc Duration to that link as well (not as much for Enfeeble but for IC).

So do linking both fire and lightning golem on the CWDT setup would work ?
(I'm thinking CWDT-IC-ID-Flamme G- Lightning G - Enfeeble)

Removing TC free 4 gem socket on my side. What would be your suggestion for using those ?

How much INT, ES and average dmg should I have at level 90?

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Kelemn wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

"

Kelemn wrote:

Is temporal chain mandatory ?

I find it perform well with two signet

3rd curse (TC) is not mandatory. You can do fine with just WM and Enfeeble. TC makes the build safer in general, but it's most noticeable at the very top level - Core, T15 Daresso, T14 Piety, Uber Vaal/Trio. Malachai in particular played a large role in convincing me that TC is worth sacrificing some ES and DPS for. If you do Core, do it twice with similar mods and compare the difficulty of Malachai with 2 and 3 curses. But if you don't plan on doing the top tier stuff then you can drop TC and either Whispers of Doom or Doedre's ring and go with more ES and DPS. Of course, you don't really need that extra ES and DPS for lower targets.


For the dual-curse version (no TC), you add Enfeeble to the lv 20 CWDT - IC link. Since dropping TC (and Ball, and CoH) frees up some gems, you can add Inc Duration to that link as well (not as much for Enfeeble but for IC).

So do linking both fire and lightning golem on the CWDT setup would work ?
(I'm thinking CWDT-IC-ID-Flamme G- Lightning G - Enfeeble)

Removing TC free 4 gem socket on my side. What would be your suggestion for using those ?

Golems are almost immortal with their elemental immunity. I don't see point to make them CWDT

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Kelemn wrote:

So do linking both fire and lightning golem on the CWDT setup would work ?
(I'm thinking CWDT-IC-ID-Flamme G- Lightning G - Enfeeble)

Removing TC free 4 gem socket on my side. What would be your suggestion for using those ?

Linking the golems with CWDT does not work for the Witch version. It works well for the Scion with her one golem, but it's completely unnecessary and even detrimental for the Witch, as I found out while playing this version over the last 2 weeks. I am going to remove that link from the Witch guide (as well as the need to color 3R in the gloves or boots).

CWDT with both golems was dismissed immediately even before I wrote the Witch guide. It just results in two copies of the golem that comes first in the CWDT link, that's useless.

So then I went with CWDT-FlameGolem similar to the Scion, plus manual summoning of the Lightning golem when you see it gone. But that still results in 2 copies of the Flame golem when you are tanking: CWDT constantly summons the 2nd copy.

But the Witch golems don't die very often. Liege makes them immune to elemental damage, so they only die to physical or chaos, i.e. rarely enough to summon them manually.

If you go with dual-curse, I would add:
- Inc Duration for CWDT-IC-Enfeeble
- Minion Life for the golems
...and I don't even know what else for the other 2 sockets...
- Vaal Lightning Trap for bosses?
- Vaal Discipline for the 'oh shit' situations?

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Inferius90 wrote:

How much INT, ES and average dmg should I have at level 90?

Good question. I'm about to hit lv 88, and I just got a decent but inexpensive set of endgame gear in Prophecy and 20/20 gems. I'll get to lv 91 over the weekend, try some serious targets and update the top post with the results. Then we can decide how much ES and Int one should have at that level.

Vaal Discipline is love




I am gonna use that chest for now. Not best but at least I will have resists capped.
In 4 link I will use CWDT+CoH+Enfeeble+Ball Lighting and 2link Vaal Discipline+Inc Dura

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Kelvynn wrote:

CWDT with both golems was dismissed immediately even before I wrote the Witch guide. It just results in two copies of the golem that comes first in the CWDT link, that's useless.

Oh wow, scratch that! I did my tests before 2.3, with the Clayshaper, and didn't bother re-testing it with the actual 2.3 char. How silly of me! Now I've just tested it again, and IT WORKS!! You can CWDT both golems and it will summon 1 copy of each. Major QoL upgrade, and doesn't cost any extra gems.

I m pretty much done with the witch rework and i have to say its great ;)
This build is really fun and strong.
My full unique setup is finished xD
[Equip]

and the jewels to support that
[/spoiler]

Now i probably will try to change it to a crit / ice version.. I don't have that much of fire + ice and my base es is really not that high ;/
How much would u lose if u play only 1 CWDT setup and use a low level Immortal Call in a 6link ?.
i could even change to occultist and play 4 curses ~.~
Well if i ever manage to get +1 curse on the amu xD

btw how can i rename the url link to make it short ?

Hi Kelvynn, hi Majin111,

first of all, sry about my english, but its not my mother tongue.

Secondly, I played the build at the time you (Kelvynn) posted a lot
in Baallord´s thread, and played it until killing ÜBER and CORE.

And now my thoughts and questions to both of you, because I am
thinking about running it as a witch now, too.

To Min-Max it, would it be good to .........

1. Get rid of 20 points in the tree and use Skyforth (like Majin111) ?

2. Get the +1 Curse on Astramentis to use a second Perandus Signet ?

3. Use the 20 points to go right and down from vaal pact (int + damage)
and to get some more ES nodes, and maybe the jew socket (top right again) ?

Or
4. Use the 20 points to get mana reserved nodes, get rid of black sun and
take heretics and combined with 6% from skyforth maybe get Blasphemy Triple,
or at least Double Curse ?

Woulb be nice both of you could think about these, and let me know if we
would have still enough INT and ES if I try the Heretis Idea !?

Thanks in advance and good loot to all of you,
Nagash

Edit:
checked with the Aura Calculator, and with 30-34% Mana Reserved in the tree,
plus the 6% from Skyforth, Heretics and Enlighten 2 or 3, Triple Curse Blas.
should be possible, with app. 200 Mana left !

Edit2 - something like this - hope I didnt miss anything :-)

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAMCAN-wksGQ-tQHF6SOvt9t3I0TNREtTIuD9yyc70sfAhBYNsUEB6-bh2XYJOvkTLNWSKcIXyrQHy0fj0br7u_rlSAdTx0Um6Ec3DLRwfM1ufrSr40YariTjxpFR6KjEVCnKxcveC8o-rUEwGZRdH_GbRlk53zlgsfkIjwFjumTJxGWwcWX9FXWWAcdvilP1abvfKaZvooOSOwYUlOApDOH7DiePKEvytNd8o_6cLssvz1fA-6Cm4V7jHa0DNDQFddmVEZxX2qGruGIgwlWYx2qb56xkMpKLahfsL6Am7XDOoTFGYoqOCLqlwb7CejWxKL22usU35gaj2Ja

"

Nágash wrote:

Hi Kelvynn, hi Majin111,

first of all, sry about my english, but its not my mother tongue.

Secondly, I played the build at the time you (Kelvynn) posted a lot
in Baallord´s thread, and played it until killing ÜBER and CORE.

And now my thoughts and questions to both of you, because I am
thinking about running it as a witch now, too.

To Min-Max it, would it be good to .........

1. Get rid of 20 points in the tree and use Skyforth (like Majin111) ?

2. Get the +1 Curse on Astramentis to use a second Perandus Signet ?

3. Use the 20 points to go right and down from vaal pact (int + damage)
and to get some more ES nodes, and maybe the jew socket (top right again) ?

Or
4. Use the 20 points to get mana reserved nodes, get rid of black sun and
take heretics and combined with 6% from skyforth maybe get Blasphemy Triple,
or at least Double Curse ?

Woulb be nice both of you could think about these, and let me know if we
would have still enough INT and ES if I try the Heretis Idea !?

Thanks in advance and good loot to all of you,
Nagash

Edit:
checked with the Aura Calculator, and with 30-34% Mana Reserved in the tree,
plus the 6% from Skyforth, Heretics and Enlighten 2 or 3, Triple Curse Blas.
should be possible, with app. 200 Mana left !

I can tell u that u don't win much for using skyforth..
I just can't stand it skilling in the wrong tree and than convert it but its a lot of base int my build misses. I used the spare points mainly for jewels and pushing my discipline because my base Es is pretty bad

http://poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAMCAd-KVK590iL0bRkRUDW5pyuX9FJTPV-XlUyz0B_v6wQHHwKD9xEtLJwQWK-bh2U2xdgkpwhWSI9GUfvNFh8Y6-4c3LiTKPqPGlfJDXzqurQMm6EYajlSWAf314RIXGvDbcrTvoqhL5Mnf8bBxewYLL8V14auVmOP-tDQRwbb52wI8YoRlg5IXfKiLlBCjDZGcYMJYENuPb6Ab57KSl-wm7WExcM6KjiCxx2-M4cD7qKjUXSO6aaZHRSvjfrSZp5yD5RvZlS3MYx2njwpT-Qi1aa1BEVHwGY=

now i just try around with some crit because aquilty + skyforth somehow seeks for it xD

http://poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAMCAd-KVK590iL0bRkRUDW5pyuX9FJTPV-XlUyz0B_v6yBuUDDbXhEPrJj314RIXGvDbZuhGGo5UlgHj0ZR-80WHxinCOvurrNBltD1BUIsnBBYh2WvmxzcuJMo-lfJDXyPGh0U-tJmnnIPlG9mVILHHb4zhwPu6rq0DEZxgwnK076KoS-TJ3_GoqNRdI7pppnBxewYLL8V14auVmOP-tDQX2pHBtvnbAjxivLhY0MWQIV9tzGMdp48KU_kItWmr42xkC2ovoARlg5IXfIqC3BSidOMNhNxXqVYruv1wwm5k_IdFy8ksICkcLvZEy9v

but the second one just don't seem to work. Vaal Pact is to much of a cut :D
and i don't know how to change the gems for this ;/
probably this will need to screw over fire conversion and maybe elementalist and go Occultist
and frost only to get more free gems ..

to your questions.
1. its an option which works ! u can handle it like me or take the converted notes around vaal pact or whatever.
Just like in the guide stated its not much better as the base version and costs the same as the hole build.

2.Worth for sure, if u get it
i have bought over 100 now :p

3 >> 1

4.Don't think its worth but i don't know for sure.

mfg
Majin