[2.4] The Master of Agony - CI / ZO + Tri-Curse Essence Drain / Contagion Trickster
" Vulnerability acts like a MORE multiplier. It's like having an extra link on essence drain which gives 36.3% MORE damage over time. The ES nodes at the witch start aren't really needed unless you are struggling with survivability. You can already reach insane ES values with the suggested passive tree (14k+ with very good ES gear). Unless you play HC, having more than 11-12k is what I consider an overkill. Fatal toxins is pretty good if you plan to farm a lot of Atziri or uber lab. If your main concern is mapping in the T12-T14 range and do the occasional T15s, I'd consider it unnecessary. | |
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Been playing this since 2 weeks.
awesome build and i love tri-curse. Managed to do all labs and even normal Atziri. My question is: Did anyone expirienced success with Uber-Aziri without a lvl 4 empower? |
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" I did Uber the first time with a lvl 19/20 Slower projectiles. About a week later, I managed to buy a lvl 4 Empower. | |
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Curse effect and aoe for curses points from tree doesnt seem to work with blasphemy gem. right?
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" Curse effectiveness and radius from three should both work with blasphemy curses. | |
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Djnat thanks for answering questions here and on your scion thread.
Do you think this trickster variant will have enough dmg for the new t16 content? I see the new Essence league making CI items crazy good so i'm not as worried about the defense. I just wonder how t16 bosses with there higher chaos resistance will effect the lower dmg trickster. What are your initial thoughts on how Essence and Atlas of worlds will effect your builds? Thanks! Hob | |
" The defenses of the Trickster version, as you wrote in your post, are insane and can only get better with some amazing crafts. Let's make a rough comparison between my scion and trickster stats. Essence Drain damage over time TRICKSTER: 40k (lvl 94) SCION: 45k (lvl 92) Health + ES pool TRICKSTER: 11k to 14k (depending on ES gear) SCION: 6k to 7.5k (5-6k life + 1-1.5k ES depending on gear) Defenses TRICKSTER: insane evasion plus armour under flasks and while under attack (20% MORE from ascendancy is so huge), chaos damage immunity, fortify via Whirling blades, Stone golem, Enfeeble and Temporal Chains (with 10% additional efficiency from passive tree), 5% additional dodge and spell dodge from ascendancies, additional block and spell block from Rumi SCION: about 35% evasion, 16% spell dodge from boots, good armour under flasks, fortify via Leap Slam, positive Chaos resistance, Stone golem, Enfeeble and Temporal Chains (with 30% additional efficiency from passive tree), additional block and spell block from Rumi Achievements TRICKSTER: Uber Atziri and all T15 bosses down SCION: Uber Atziri and all T15 bosses down Quality of Life options TRICKSTER: 100% pierce, faster whirling blades, poison via Consuming Dark SCION: 80% pierce, double ED bullet, hexproof ignoring, poison via Cospri's Will, 15% enemies' chaos resistance lowering, curse efficiency enchant on helmet As to pure damage, I theorycrafted a difference which can vary from 45% to 102% depending on mobs' chaos resistance. Scion will do about twice the damage of the Trickster against max chaos resistance mobs, about 45% more damage against 0% chaos resistance mobs. In Hexproof maps, the damage difference becomes even greater because of Vulnerability. The survivability of the Trickster is twice the one of the Scion, but in Hexproof maps it becomes very similar. Scion can do Blood magic maps (struggling A LOT), Trickster can't even enter them, because of CI. Yesterday I tried two very similar T14 Shrine maps, both with Enfeeble + more monster life. I did one with the Scion, the other with the Trickster. The Scion one was quite fast despite of the map mods, the Trickster one was a lot slower, but amazingly safe, even if Piety managed to transform into the ice archer version one time (which she couldn't on the Scion because she died before). No one can say how big the difficulty of T16 maps will be, but I suspect that in the gearing phase of the league, Trickster will be a solid option because of the immense survivability with pretty-easy-to obtain-gear. When the gear is set in stone, Scion becomes a killing machine and shines when mapping against "hated" mods like more monster life or monster layouts with high chaos resistance (like the wanders in Poorjoy's Asylum). Last edited by djnat on Aug 22, 2016, 6:07:49 PM
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I really appreciate the through reply i know (from reading all 16 pages) that debate between the builds has been on going.
Scion Life - Best dmg Worst Defense Occultist LL - Good dmg, good defense Trickster CI - Worst dmg, Best Defense Do i have that right? Please don't feel the need to go further if your not bored and interested in random theory crafting with someone who isn't very good at it. I have a tendency to get carried away before a new league and that's pretty much what is happening here. What happens when you start braking those molds? Scion CI or even low life? Occultist CI? Id imagine that the 3 ED meta builds are just the best at what the do LL, CI, Life, but im kind of looking for it all. I'm willing to go for a more well rounded character realizing ill lose dmg and\or defense against one of the options above . TO me that seems like scion could offer some of that flexibility? This is where i go on a tangent trying to be good at build making and then Give up. I decided to spoiler tag it because i spent like 3 hours working trees comparing ascendances but i don't think it ended up that great. I basically tried to take your scion tree and smash it into your trickster build as CI.
Spoiler
What about going Scion building like Trickster, and going Occultist\Trickster? build it 100% pierce like you would build a trickster anyway and keep the Occultist benefits. Going Scion Occulist\Trickster instead of Occulist\deadeye. You lose: 30% chance to Pierce - You make this up by going "path of the trickster" and getting pierce nodes 15% chance to bleed with attacks - does not apply anyway up to 30% increased dmg the further projectiles travel - trickster 20% increased dmg when not full ES extra projectile - cant really make this up as I'm betting the new ring wouldn't be worth it? You gain: 30% increased mana and ES recovery rate on DOT kill recently 20% more evade on full ES 100% mana regen rate after move skill 100% pierce instead of 80% So it really comes down to 10% increased dmg sometimes and an extra projectile which i have no way valuing having never played it traded for more defense including CI. I think i came up with a tree that is very similar to your trickster tree trying to take advantage of the "path of the shadow" as much as possible. What gets me is comparing it to your scion tree. They end up pretty similar. Its harder with your scion tree as you just get more dmg from the templar and ranger start. I couldn't come up with a way to make up that dmg and keep my ES at the same level of your trickster build. My weird Scion Occ\trick CI tree So to sum all this up i think i want a scion CI build do you think that style would be worth it? Im affraid of going life because ive heard that in really hard fights like Core you just cant get enough life to sustain the dmg output. Thanks hob Last edited by Hobben on Aug 23, 2016, 6:00:09 PM
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Core Malachai is a sort of extreme case where a very big ES pool, coupled with a strong recharge mechanic, wins over a smaller life pool, because in that fight you can take some big spikes of damage, but you have room to refill your main resource. With a life based build you have to use a potion every time you need it, so you eventually run out of pots. With an ES based build you take advantage from recharge, which is a timed mechanic, so you don't consume pots to come back to full ES.
This is why Malachai is a special fight where you can't always avoid all the things he throws at you. So you need a sort of resource backup to avoid random deaths. Uber Atziri is another case, but I find her easier, because her spells are more predictable and easier to dodge. Fights like Malachai are really a small part of the whole PoE experience. Often you read in the forums things like "Core viable" or "Uber Atziri viable" when those fights usually take 1-2% of your played time in a league. I find it sort of a nonsense. Another thing is the clear speed debate: if a build cannot clear a Gorge in under 1.5 minutes, its somewhat considered bad. In my opinion, a good build has to match these parameters: 1. FUN 2. Good scaling with gear 3. Able to do all the content in the game, not necessarily deathless or blindfolded 4. Solid damage and defenses, I avoid characters who die too easily, I love characters who die if I make big mistakes 5. Near to zero map mods to avoid / reroll If you want to do some damage minmaxing, probably the best thing to try would be a lowlife Ascendant (Deadeye + Occultist) with Shavronne's Wrappings, Heretic's veil and Consuming dark. So you could have, at level 90+, about 10k ES (with discipline ON) and take advantage of ES recharge mechanics plus pain attunement for 30% more damage. All this in the Scion package which offers an insane passive tree efficiency plus the double sub-ascendancy which is amazing for ED. I chose to play life based, in this league, because I loved the interaction between ED, curses and Cospri's + the free poison it provides which basically frees the weapon slot and does not force to use The Consuming Dark. Ignoring the hexproof mod is a HUGE QoL option when mapping. It allows us to make full use of curse efficiency nodes in EVERY map and against 99.9% of mobs. Since you can't use Cospri's as CI (because you would lose a crazy ton of ES), in the trickster version I didn't even take Skittering Runes in the passive tree, or go for a curse enchant on head. Hexproof packs / maps would make those choices inefficient. In the scion version, you can take both things with no worries. | |
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Just want to thank you. Running your build at the prophecy HC at the moment (lvl 90) and having much fun. Unfortunately without a veil and disciplibe instead. However, it clears good and feels really safe.
Thanks for your build and the effort of posting and maintaining. |
