Development Manifesto: 2.3.0 Balance

Please clarify the Juggernaut's endurance charge generation - what that "up to" phrazing means? A random number of charges is generated between 0/1/<current number> and max? Or max number of them always?

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tafonso wrote:

So they nerf consuming dark not once, but twice. I'm not sure if they are intentionally trying to kill the item off. Now you get 50% of the damage converted and then to boot its at an effectiveness of 60% meaning they further reduced the damage by 40% less damage. If they couldn't change the items damage conversion then why not give all monster chaos resist in merc difficulty. This would of allowed for any current conversion builds to be less effective in chaos damage.

eg 1000 fire damage with new conversion grants damage of 800 - 500 fire, 300 chaos

40% chaos resistance would accomplish this, and then they could incorporate was to reduce that chaos res.

The second nerf has not kicked in yet. It was 75% a few months ago, then it was reduced to 50% in the last update in March. Next week it will be nerfed AGAIN and it will be 30% damage converted. Worse...they will not be having legacy items, meaning anybody that did a build before March and has a legacy 75% will suddenly have their dagger go down to 30% conversion...which will likely kill their build.

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Archwizard wrote:

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ladish wrote:

I feel like these big manifesto posts should just show up on the front page as opposed to needing a news post with a link to it.

Except the link is to the development manifesto sub forum... where all the manifesto posts are.

I know there is a manifesto forum amongst the myriad of subforums. My point was having important news scattered around the forum in sections most people won't see without a link somewhere more visible seems inefficient. It is part of the reason people (including the devs) use reddit instead of the forums to get their info.

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tafonso wrote:

So they nerf consuming dark not once, but twice. I'm not sure if they are intentionally trying to kill the item off. Now you get 50% of the damage converted and then to boot its at an effectiveness of 60% meaning they further reduced the damage by 40% less damage. If they couldn't change the items damage conversion then why not give all monster chaos resist in merc difficulty. This would of allowed for any current conversion builds to be less effective in chaos damage.

eg 1000 fire damage with new conversion grants damage of 800 - 500 fire, 300 chaos

40% chaos resistance would accomplish this, and then they could incorporate was to reduce that chaos res.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUw7F7NHHs this pretty much sums up why this change is necessary.

I really feel like GGG have painted themselves in a weird corner and are handling it really badly.

The problem starts by putting in this reflect damage mob ability that just slaughters people who damage the mobs, and the only way to survive the reflection is to use Leach.

Then they make it so almost all sources of leach are melee physical only. People naturally flock to the few solutions to this delima that exist.... chaos damage doesn't get reflected, so everyone takes it. Scion Bezerker has one of the only sources of leach that isn't limited to melee/physical, so everyone flocks to take it.

Rather then nerfing Chaos conversion and Scion Bezeker into the ground, maybe they should look at adding more alternatives to dealing with damage reflection; esp including more leach options for spell builds, or alternatives to chaos conversion to bypass damage reflection.

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EpicFail42 wrote:

Please clarify the Juggernaut's endurance charge generation - what that "up to" phrazing means? A random number of charges is generated between 0/1/<current number> and max? Or max number of them always?

I think, it means you'll build up full number of charges, whenever you get just one charge.
Might be kinda strong for discharge builds, i should admit. Or to keep up Immortal Call indefintely long..


BTW, i dont like than each Ascendancy tree (except scion) still has 12 nodes (and 6 notables), when total number of Scendancy points was increased to 8. I would like to see 16 nodes in each Ascendancy tree, so players will have a choice, actually. Now those trees look like you can just grab everything useful.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

I think, it means you'll build up full number of charges, whenever you get just one charge.
Might be kinda strong for discharge builds, i should admit. Or to keep up Immortal Call indefintely long..

Sadly, only GGG knows the truth right now, and it changes the build's attractiveness a lot. If it's all charges - the discharge would work with just a blasphemy warlord mark, but with, say, getting random number of them (so, about 4-5 on average, and often just 1) it would need a lot of enduring cry, and it would be easier to go with the flow and play an elementalist or a slayer then :-)

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CrimsonSiege wrote:

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tafonso wrote:

So they nerf consuming dark not once, but twice. I'm not sure if they are intentionally trying to kill the item off. Now you get 50% of the damage converted and then to boot its at an effectiveness of 60% meaning they further reduced the damage by 40% less damage. If they couldn't change the items damage conversion then why not give all monster chaos resist in merc difficulty. This would of allowed for any current conversion builds to be less effective in chaos damage.

eg 1000 fire damage with new conversion grants damage of 800 - 500 fire, 300 chaos

40% chaos resistance would accomplish this, and then they could incorporate was to reduce that chaos res.

The second nerf has not kicked in yet. It was 75% a few months ago, then it was reduced to 50% in the last update in March. Next week it will be nerfed AGAIN and it will be 30% damage converted. Worse...they will not be having legacy items, meaning anybody that did a build before March and has a legacy 75% will suddenly have their dagger go down to 30% conversion...which will likely kill their build.

I found the wording of their statement to be VERY vague in what they did to balance chaos damage. However, if its just a straight up conversion % nerf, 60% of 75% is 45% bro. Two legacy consuming darks still give 90% conversion in that case.

The non-legacy variants are 30% with two granting 60%.

But yeah, when I saw that unique released I knew it was going to be trouble, but beating it repeatedly with the nerf hammer is kind of stupid.

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Ageless_Emperion wrote:

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CrimsonSiege wrote:

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tafonso wrote:

So they nerf consuming dark not once, but twice. I'm not sure if they are intentionally trying to kill the item off. Now you get 50% of the damage converted and then to boot its at an effectiveness of 60% meaning they further reduced the damage by 40% less damage. If they couldn't change the items damage conversion then why not give all monster chaos resist in merc difficulty. This would of allowed for any current conversion builds to be less effective in chaos damage.

eg 1000 fire damage with new conversion grants damage of 800 - 500 fire, 300 chaos

40% chaos resistance would accomplish this, and then they could incorporate was to reduce that chaos res.

The second nerf has not kicked in yet. It was 75% a few months ago, then it was reduced to 50% in the last update in March. Next week it will be nerfed AGAIN and it will be 30% damage converted. Worse...they will not be having legacy items, meaning anybody that did a build before March and has a legacy 75% will suddenly have their dagger go down to 30% conversion...which will likely kill their build.

I found the wording of their statement to be VERY vague in what they did to balance chaos damage. However, if its just a straight up conversion % nerf, 60% of 75% is 45% bro. Two legacy consuming darks still give 90% conversion in that case.

The non-legacy variants are 30% with two granting 60%.

But yeah, when I saw that unique released I knew it was going to be trouble, but beating it repeatedly with the nerf hammer is kind of stupid.

Ya, I know 60% of 75 is 45. I said everyone with a 75 will have theirs go down to 30 because they said there will not be legacies, so EVERY Consuming Dark will be bumped down to the same 60% of what it is now (50% conversion)....so all Consuming Darks will be at 30% conversion after the update. I understand why they are doing it, but for a casual player like me with only a few exalted orbs to his name, I was enjoying being able to run endgame maps on a budget.

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CrimsonSiege wrote:

Ya, I know 60% of 75 is 45. I said everyone with a 75 will have theirs go down to 30 because they said there will not be legacies, so EVERY Consuming Dark will be bumped down to the same 60% of what it is now (50% conversion)....so all Consuming Darks will be at 30% conversion after the update. I understand why they are doing it, but for a casual player like me with only a few exalted orbs to his name, I was enjoying being able to run endgame maps on a budget.

This is not correct. They're avoiding generating legacy items by simply implementing a game rule that multiplies all chaos conversion by 0.6. This means they don't have to go in and change every item individually. The legacy 75% Consuming Darks will be 45%.