Labyrinth an all difficulties? absolute horror, who has time for this?

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Char1983 wrote:

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Vortextreme wrote:

You just called everyone a liar and dismissed all arguments without presenting any of your own.

No. He called people who claim it takes an hour to get through the lab liars, and said that that doesn't help a healthy discussion. While I wouldn't call them liars, I would certainly say that they are being dishonest (fine point there), and also say that it doesn't help the discussion at all.

Since there is no way for you or him to know how long it takes someone to do the lab (especially if they die for whatever reason), I would point that back at you for bringing dishonesty and empty rhetoric into the discussion.

Well, I am not an elitist player either, but if it takes you more than one hour to get through the lab to get your ascendancy points, you should either come back when you are better geared or just get better at playing the game.

As I pointed out yesterday, average on Merciless lab was 15 minutes.

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Char1983 wrote:

Well, I am not an elitist player either, but if it takes you more than one hour to get through the lab to get your ascendancy points, you should either come back when you are better geared or just get better at playing the game.

As I pointed out yesterday, average on Merciless lab was 15 minutes.

Liar was maybe too strong but my point is well explained by char83. If someone want to argue that a lab walkthrough takes an hour on the average thats just not true. If you die you just have to learn how to approach the lab.

Then maybe it could take long for a new player, but that's true even talking about act 1 to be fair.

Then i don't really want to say that is mandatory to like the lab, but i'd like to see a fair discussion :/

So you don't have 20 minutes per difficulty to do labs?

How come you have time to level at all then?

Nonsense post

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Frattagli4 wrote:

To tell the truth even if i'm far to be an elitist player i'm really tempted to use the l2p argument.

It's absurd to read after two months all this non-sense. People that just exagerate a lot with their argument against lab.

Come on! It's fair and ok not to like it, but if you really complain about lab being a platformer (and it isn't) or claim that it takes 1 hour to get through it's just a lie. How can we have an healthy discussions with this kind of crappy arguments?

What I said was that, to me the trap gameplay in the labyrinth is similar to Prince of Persia, Mario and Frogger. That means that when I play it it feels very similar and feels like the same boring tedious and not fun gameplay. I have not argued that labyrinth is a "platformer". From a genre perspective, I would say that it is in the same category as Prince of Persia. As a matter of fact in the PoE Ascendancy hype put out prior to release they referenced it as Prince of Persia like.

Regarding the 45 to 60 minute estimate, look at the labyrinth ladders. I'll try to describe the current Perandus normal labyrinth ladder. There are 170 entries. Each entry is the fastest labyrinth run time for that character for the current cycle. They are sorted by time. The 84th entry is the first entry over 30 minutes. This is another example as to why I say that the median seems to always be around 30 minutes, at least for the normal/cruel in standard and Perandus. Also, you need to wait later in the current cycle to get a representative sample but it seems to consistently be around 30 minutes for a median time. I haven't really looked at the other ladders very much because I assume that the merciless labyrinths will have a much higher percentage of people racing and doing enchant runs. The 154th run is the first run over one hour. Chris Wilson has said that labyrinth was designed to be completed within a 45 to 60 minute sitting and that is also part of the reason that I throw out the 45 to 60 minute figure.

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Char1983 wrote:

Well, I am not an elitist player either, but if it takes you more than one hour to get through the lab to get your ascendancy points, you should either come back when you are better geared or just get better at playing the game.

As I pointed out yesterday, average on Merciless lab was 15 minutes.

The merciless labyrinth ladder is mostly racing and enchant runs. The problem with that is that first, racing and enchant run people are much more practiced at labyrinth than the context we're discussing. Second, racing and enchant runs generally involve multiple runs through the labyrinth and only the fastest run is shown. That is also not the context that we're discussing here. Also, I assume you meant the median not the average?

Well, practice, then. Or just don't ascend. The good thing is, you got the choice.

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Char1983 wrote:

Well, practice, then. Or just don't ascend. The good thing is, you got the choice.

I hate eating okra. Char1983 says, "Well, practice" and "But yes, you are better at complaining than actually just finding a solution."

For what it's worth just add me as a friend to have a free lab playthrough.

I really cannot believe a realistic estimate of more than 30 minutes to get normal ascendancy. Cruel and Merciless are faster just because while levellin efficient movement skill and speed are luxury, later they are the rule :P

Sorry for the slight post/reply-necro, but I missed this analogy the first time around and I really love analogies.

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Turtledove wrote:

It is like me saying, "I hate eating okra" and so you say "You need to practice eating okra until you get really good at it".

Actually, this happens in real life all the time. Ever heard of an "acquired taste"? People will push alcohol at you all the time, saying "I know you hate it now but you just need to drink more of it until you get used to it! Your body will handle it better, and you'll come to like it!"