Slayer - Impact

double post wtf

so basically there is zero reason to use impact? serious design flaw. It's far superior to just use melee splash, so that you can get more aoe and do more damage. This is from the perspective that the main appeal is to use a skill like frenzy or double-strike.

thanks for feedback.

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SpanishMonarch wrote:

so basically there is zero reason to use impact? serious design flaw. It's far superior to just use melee splash, so that you can get more aoe and do more damage. This is from the perspective that the main appeal is to use a skill like frenzy or double-strike.

thanks for feedback.

Lets say you're double strike, and your links are
ds-faster attacks-melee phys-multistrike-melee splash-added fire.

Taking impact and removing melee splash lets you socket in another gem. Lets say you're CI so you can use Melee pys on full life for 49% more damage which means your single target is better, AND your aoe is better.

"

Suzumiyaharuhi wrote:

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SpanishMonarch wrote:

so basically there is zero reason to use impact? serious design flaw. It's far superior to just use melee splash, so that you can get more aoe and do more damage. This is from the perspective that the main appeal is to use a skill like frenzy or double-strike.

thanks for feedback.

Lets say you're double strike, and your links are
ds-faster attacks-melee phys-multistrike-melee splash-added fire.

Taking impact and removing melee splash lets you socket in another gem. Lets say you're CI so you can use Melee pys on full life for 49% more damage which means your single target is better, AND your aoe is better.

that is the worst 6L idea i've ever heard, but your point is noted. More importantly, you completely missed the point. If you want to have a big aoe, YOU MUST USE MELEE SPLASH GEM---because as has already been stated, using Impact is fixed at 14 radius for single-target skills. Using melee-splash however lets you, quite easily, reach 20-25 radius

I think this node has it's uses.
I suppose for a Dodge build, you'd always go Ranger or Shadow, but still, a Frenzy Main Attack on a build that is rarely ever hit can definitely benefit from Melee damage on full life.
And you could still use the inc. AOE combo on a weak puncture to benefit from bloodlust.
Or, say, IB with main AOE being on-kill explosions (though that is a really old build-concept).

Maybe pretty niche, yet still, looking at available supports, there's IAS, Melee Phys, MPofL, BL, AF, MS, LGoH, Leech, and Splash available.
Depending on the build also poison, Stun supports, Crit Bonuses or Elemental Supports.
I think I could find a replacement for Splash.

I guess it just doesn't fit well into the current meta of preferably killing the whole pack at once.

"

UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

I think this node has it's uses.
I suppose for a Dodge build, you'd always go Ranger or Shadow, but still, a Frenzy Main Attack on a build that is rarely ever hit can definitely benefit from Melee damage on full life.
And you could still use the inc. AOE combo on a weak puncture to benefit from bloodlust.
Or, say, IB with main AOE being on-kill explosions (though that is a really old build-concept).

Maybe pretty niche, yet still, looking at available supports, there's IAS, Melee Phys, MPofL, BL, AF, MS, LGoH, Leech, and Splash available.
Depending on the build also poison, Stun supports, Crit Bonuses or Elemental Supports.
I think I could find a replacement for Splash.

I guess it just doesn't fit well into the current meta of preferably killing the whole pack at once.

The only way to play POE is to play crit. If you're not critting, and your dps is not well into the six digits, then you're not playing right. The only caveat being if you are on hardcore (i have two 90+ from perandus HC).

Exactly. And I hope that changes.
I doubt it will, though.

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SpanishMonarch wrote:

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Suzumiyaharuhi wrote:

"

SpanishMonarch wrote:

so basically there is zero reason to use impact? serious design flaw. It's far superior to just use melee splash, so that you can get more aoe and do more damage. This is from the perspective that the main appeal is to use a skill like frenzy or double-strike.

thanks for feedback.

Lets say you're double strike, and your links are
ds-faster attacks-melee phys-multistrike-melee splash-added fire.

Taking impact and removing melee splash lets you socket in another gem. Lets say you're CI so you can use Melee pys on full life for 49% more damage which means your single target is better, AND your aoe is better.

that is the worst 6L idea i've ever heard, but your point is noted. More importantly, you completely missed the point. If you want to have a big aoe, YOU MUST USE MELEE SPLASH GEM---because as has already been stated, using Impact is fixed at 14 radius for single-target skills. Using melee-splash however lets you, quite easily, reach 20-25 radius

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Impact will always get a boost from Radius modifiers

1. What's a better 6L for double strike?

2. AOE increases affect Impact's AOE.

For example, lets say you have Impact and headsman. Suddenly 40% increased AOE, your impact radius is now an engorged 20!

Lets say you don't have impact or headsman. You're only using melee splash that you've gotten to level 21 by a lucky vaal. You're stuck at a flaccid 17.

"But wait!" you cry, "I have increased aoe! I'm running a carcass jack, and i have the templar nodes and headsman!"

Well now you've elongated your melee splash aoe to a hearty 26!

However, if you had impact, not only would you not have a 160% multiplier gem, you'd be at 24 radius.

Wow. 2 radius.

You must really care about size.

"

Suzumiyaharuhi wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

Impact will always get a boost from Radius modifiers

1. What's a better 6L for double strike?

2. AOE increases affect Impact's AOE.

For example, lets say you have Impact and headsman. Suddenly 40% increased AOE, your impact radius is now an engorged 20!

Lets say you don't have impact or headsman. You're only using melee splash that you've gotten to level 21 by a lucky vaal. You're stuck at a flaccid 17.

"But wait!" you cry, "I have increased aoe! I'm running a carcass jack, and i have the templar nodes and headsman!"

Well now you've elongated your melee splash aoe to a hearty 26!

However, if you had impact, not only would you not have a 160% multiplier gem, you'd be at 24 radius.

Wow. 2 radius.

You must really care about size.

Ok so now you're contradicting what the other guy said. Here is how I am understanding it (before your interpretation, which I like better if it is true).

1. Impact has a base splash radius of 14 units.
2. Therefore, using a single-target skill that has NO aoe tag (i.e. double-strike) will receive the base radius of 14 units.
3. As such, all radius modifiers are NOT APPLICABLE to increasing the splash radius because double strike has no AOE tag.
4. Alternative skill, such as groundslam, which does have an aoe tag, will benefit from aoe modifiers.
5. If everything I've said is correct, the way to increase aoe for a single-target skill beyond 14 units is to use melee splash gem, which being tagged AOE, benefits from AOE nodes/gear etc.

Is this right or wrong? And why is GGG so bad at making things intuitive?

Read Vipermagi's post at the end of last page very carefully. He doesn't technically contradict Mark in any way, in fact, he's expanding on the last sentence that Mark wrote in his response to question 3.

Mark's responses are mainly focused on the IAoESupport gem.

From a decision making perspective, I'm fairly sure* the takeaway should be that IAOE support gem on strictly single target with Impact is the one and only way that increased AoE bonuses won't affect Impact.

Thus, Impact is not permanently limited to 14. It can surely reach at least 16, and apparently based on the other guy's calcs can reach 24 or so depending on the build. It just can't benefit from the most obvious way to increase aoe.

*the reason I say fairly sure is that some others have pointed out interesting interactions, I think with Elemental Proliferation Support. I believe Proliferation quality grants increased aoe radius to active skill, and Prolif always grants AoE gemtaggyness to the skill, I think, so using Prolif as a support would enable you to support any single target melee skill with Increased AOE and have it work.

If there are any support gems that grant increased aoe (probably with quality, I can never memorize quality bonuses because I'm always too cheap to quality gems), but do not grant aoe gemtaggyness, they would, like IAOESupport, not affect Impact. Otherwise, all AoE radius bonuses that would affect Melee Splash Supported single target attacks will apply to Impact based single target attacks