[2.4] zSavage's Budget Voll-less Mjolner! [Juggernaut] - Updated for 2.4!

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arteqt wrote:

Is this build gonna get +60 tree anytime soon? Just started playing on essence league.

Edit: Nvm I'm an idiot. Thanks for the build

GL with the build dude! I check this thread almost daily, so if you have any questions or need help at any point, just post here and I'll usually answer rather promptly.

Hi zSavage, thanks for the build, I'm actually leveling a char to play this build.

But I was wondering. About the chest armour, would a Brass Dome be okay with this build ?

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Sydjex wrote:

Hi zSavage, thanks for the build, I'm actually leveling a char to play this build.

But I was wondering. About the chest armour, would a Brass Dome be okay with this build ?

Yes. Brass dome is actually quite amazing and opens the door to a new set of possibilities. You will have excellent armor from this and be able to cover your resists elsewhere.

The biggest thing about Brass Dome is that it opens up some insane combos with Reckless Defense jewels and Avenger's Flasks since you don't take extra damage from crits. This is something I've been thinking about for a while but have yet to do since I don't have any of the jewels.

Okay, thanks a lot for your reply !

I'm actually level 72, and playing your build is really fun !!

This is my actual stuff :


I know that my life is a little low, I only have 2.9K, i'll work on it later today.

hai i have few mjolnir questions sorry for long list

1) why is every1 playing life mjolnir?
2) can u even play LL/Ci mjolnir?
3) how much stronger is cospri discharge vs mjolnir discharge?
4) what is the optimal link for discharge in mjolnir? i assume it would be like discharge/controlled/penetration? or should u go like discharge/arc/controlled for more charge generation?
5) RT vs ele overload? is RT just easier to gear so most is RT?
6) how much of mjolnir dmg is voll's devotion? i mean u can go auras or something instead of voll's devotion
7) how about kaoms for nice hp boost?
8) jugger/bersker/elementalist/something else?
9) repentance vs no repentance? ironwill looks stronk for mjolnir
sorry for a lot of stupid questions

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ruzga wrote:

hai i have few mjolnir questions sorry for long list

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1) why is every1 playing life mjolnir?

There are several reasons why this is common:
1. This chestpiece:
2. Mjolner requires a lot of raw STR (412 to be exact) and most of this is on the left side of the tree where there are a lot of life nodes. Plus STR gives life inherently.
3. Vaal Pact is rather far away and Kingsguard provides potentially better healing while still allowing life regeneration.
4. It's relatively easy to get the color sockets required on gear that doesn't require pure INT.

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2) can u even play LL/Ci mjolnir?

Yes, you can. You just can't abuse the Kingsguard heal like a life build can. And you'll need Vaal Pact, and may have to sacrifice a gem slot in Mjolner or a bunch of mana to run Warlords on Blasphemy to get Life Leech. So your DPS will suffer for this quite a bit. Though this isn't as much of an issue for LL since you get more auras. There are a few LL Mjolner builds on the forums, though I haven't seen any CI ones recently.
It's also very hard to roll the desired red and green sockets on pure ES gear to be able to run your skills.

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3) how much stronger is cospri discharge vs mjolnir discharge?

Cospri's Malice is basically the old CoC Fakener pre nerf. I would say that generally Cospri's is stronger, although you're pretty much required to be an Assassin or a Trickster to play the build effectively.

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4) what is the optimal link for discharge in mjolnir? i assume it would be like discharge/controlled/penetration? or should u go like discharge/arc/controlled for more charge generation?

It's highly dependent on your gearing and setup. For example, this build uses Discharge + Ball Lightning + Lightning pen, as Ball Lightning generates extra charges. My Savagenuke build uses Discharge + Iron Will + Fire Pen (that's a Voll's Devotion Spell Crit Juggernaut). My current spell crit Inquisitor variant uses Discharge + Inc AoE/Conc Effect + Iron Will. Generally speaking if you have Voll's Devotion Discharge + 2 supports is best but which supports depends on your build and gear choices.

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5) RT vs ele overload? is RT just easier to gear so most is RT?

RT is more consistent (ie you can count on getting charges) but does less overall damaage than EO. I would say EO is generally superior to any RT build, as long as your accuracy is OK. But there's a 3rd kind that's not RT and not EO: Spell crit. Which I have enjoyed the most and found the most powerful personally.

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6) how much of mjolnir dmg is voll's devotion? i mean u can go auras or something instead of voll's devotion

If you're a Juggernaut using the endurance charge gain mechanic, it's most of your damage (about 2/3 or so). Otherwise it basically doubles your damage output. It's also the key to using Kingsguard and having an effective CWDT Immortal Call. With this build here I use my auras to help the build compensate for not using one, at least defensively. But auras can't fully make up for the DPS loss from not having it.

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7) how about kaoms for nice hp boost?

The issue with Kaoms is the lack of sockets. If you want to use Kaoms, something has to go so you can have Molten Strike going in a 4L. You'd probably have to sacrifice your counter attacks, blood rage, and perhaps a movement skill and your non IC spell in CWDT to be able to run Kaoms. Then you're missing all the kingsguard healing (only if you have a Volls though) OR you're missing about 1K base armor from your chest if using a build like the one in this thread.

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8) jugger/bersker/elementalist/something else?

There's quite a few Ascendancy classes that can work with Mjolner. I'll list the ones I would recommend here, in no particular order (each has its own advantages).
Juggernaut: Superb Accuracy and Attack Speed, ability to stack up and abuse a lot of endurance charges. Also has Fortify Effect OR extra chest armor, depending on choice. Very strong choice, with or without Volls.
Berserker: Strong damage bonuses and attack/movement speed bonuses. 100% leech can be strong but really needs Vaal Pact to actually work well on its own w/o Kingsguard heal.
Inquisitor: Very strong for a spell crit build. Ignoring resistances on crits means a defensive curse like enfeeble can be used. Doesn't need a penetration gem either so frees support link. Also has elemental damage reduction/boost aura that is quite effective.
Hierophant: Great for a budget Volls-like build without having Volls, as can generate endurance charges whenever he gets power charges.
Elementalist: This class has a lot of strong interactions with Mjolner. Liege of the Primordial can be quite strong, as it lets you have a lightning and fire golem which will function very well. It takes reduced reflect damage, and has conflux. The tricky question is whether to get the prolif or Pendulum of Destruction. I think I would favor Pendulum, personally. But a solid looking class.
Gladiator: Very strong if you'd like to incorporate some block into your build. Also has solid pack clearspeed thanks to exploding dudes from molten strike hits causing bleed.
Champion: A solid all around class, with nice damage bonuses. Permanent Fortify frees a couple of gem slots on your gear, so there's some potential for some interesting setups there.

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9) repentance vs no repentance? ironwill looks stronk for mjolnir

The big thing here is about whether basically an extra a level one support is worth giving up attack speed and life and resists (or freedom to have less on other pieces). Most Mjolner builds don't go much beyond 450 or so STR because of the INT requirements they have. So we're looking at around 90% spell damage before any penalties from the gloves.
So here's the skinny: IF your build is damage strapped, I'd recommed using them if you won't really miss the life and resistances. Otherwise I recommend using a good rare as described and running the Iron Will support. On one of my builds that does use the support it actually does more damage than with a Conc Effect support. (the support also has an extra 50% spell damage at 20/20 that the gloves, of course, do not).

Hope this answers your questions!

-Savage

1) i get that kingsguard exist
i get that most mjolniers are marauders and that is left side of the tree that is str/life
i get that its harder to roll offcolors on es chests

my question was isn't ES always better since u won't end up with 5k hp but rather 10-12k es?

3)
i know cospri is like old coc but my question was HOW MUCH STRONGER compared to mjolnir :)


5) yeah i was wondering if EO is stronger even tho it is less accurate that is very nice



9) here i was just wondering how do u get better dmg? if u get better dmg from repentance i think u should get them unless ofc u have no gear and need life/res to survive

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ruzga wrote:

1) i get that kingsguard exist
i get that most mjolniers are marauders and that is left side of the tree that is str/life
i get that its harder to roll offcolors on es chests

my question was isn't ES always better since u won't end up with 5k hp but rather 10-12k es?

This is more of an ES vs life kind of question overall. Also, my mjolner builds typically are in the 6-7k life range instead of 5k.

Basically, while it is difficult to make a passive tree that gets all the attribute requirements reasonably close, have enough damage/attack speed nodes, and still have a lot of ES, it is possible. I made a tree for a CI elementalist to check my ideas; ends up needing 3 unique jewels and can't go spell crit but has around 300% ES. It would also need a lot of STR from gear and other jewels (around 150 or so). It might struggle with accuracy (current version is EO) but the tree could be altered to take RT potentially.

Big thing with going ES is that you need leech, and you need Vaal Pact. So you pretty much have to socket the Life Leech gem in your Mjolner, as Warlord's on Blasphemy is unreliable and doesn't give much leech against bosses. So there's a DPS sacrfice there for that support. Couple in the lower attack speed and less tree nodes for DPS, and here's the conclusion that I arrive at:

Life based Mjolner builds do a lot more DPS than ES based Mjolner builds. And their effective HP against various things is similar. It comes down to needing a slightly larger buffer to take a hit vs doing more damage and healing faster.

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3)
i know cospri is like old coc but my question was HOW MUCH STRONGER compared to mjolnir :)

I can't give you a quantifiable answer since I have yet to play a Cospri's build. But before the 2.4 changes Mjolner was generally tankier but CoC did more DPS due to its crit nature. Since Cospri's is basically the way to play the old CoC builds after the CoC gem nerf, I'd say that at the high end cospri's does more damage and has a larger pool to take hits.

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5) yeah i was wondering if EO is stronger even tho it is less accurate that is very nice



9) here i was just wondering how do u get better dmg? if u get better dmg from repentance i think u should get them unless ofc u have no gear and need life/res to survive

The extra attack speed you can get from rare gloves is actually quite valuable. Mjolner can only proc 10 times per second, per spell. If you're only triggering one spell, extra hits equate to extra charge generation which is a lot more damage per use. There's also the advantage of not having to stand in place as long and moving faster that extra attack speed brings.

-Savage

thx man for all the help!

how could u get 7k life with mjolnir? all builds i see are around 5,5k hp

and what would u think of my idea

kaoms bersker EO mjolnir (additional acc in links)

-shieldcharge for clearing trash
-other skill for single target
-mjolnir with discharge-pen-aoe/conc/controlled
-romiras
-no volls(!)
-repentance
-with purity of lightning + wrath going only power charges (coz no voll's)
-atziris flask + vinkars + boot leech enchant (life leech)

if it sounds retarded and weak dps go volls dual purity

that would make it kinda of mjolnir-coc like with big hp and fast clear in maps

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ruzga wrote:

thx man for all the help!

how could u get 7k life with mjolnir? all builds i see are around 5,5k hp

I skirt through the middle of the tree and pass through the scion life cluster instead of wandering around the outside of the skill tree like a wuss for stats and aura reservation nodes. For example, my lvl 94 character (not this build) has nearly 6.8k life. He could have more either in a few levels or if I dropped some raw spell damage nodes for more life nodes.

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ruzga wrote:

and what would u think of my idea

kaoms bersker EO mjolnir (additional acc in links)

-shieldcharge for clearing trash
-other skill for single target
-mjolnir with discharge-pen-aoe/conc/controlled
-romiras
-no volls(!)
-repentance
-with purity of lightning + wrath going only power charges (coz no voll's)
-atziris flask + vinkars + boot leech enchant (life leech)

if it sounds retarded and weak dps go volls dual purity

that would make it kinda of mjolnir-coc like with big hp and fast clear in maps

If you go without Voll's you're going to want more triggered skills than just discharge. The build in this thread, for example, uses Ball Lighting to generate extra power charges. So Voll-less I would recommend Discharge + Ball Lightning + Lightning Penetration.
If you don't want to play Juggernaut (who has no problems with accuracy and can stack armor), you can play a different class but keep the core of the tree intact. For example, if you want to play a Berserker in this style I would recommend something like this. I took my tree of my lvl 90 character (who this thread is about) and dropped some armor nodes and grabbed a bunch more raw life. You could run something like Wrath + Conductivity on Blasphemy for your auras for more DPS. You could also swap the curse as needed. In this case if you wanted Kaom's I would recommend the following for gearing:
1) Run a spirit shield with spell damage and life instead of an armor shield.
2) Shield contains auras: Wrath + Blasphemy + Curse
3) You now have 3 4L's for your remaining skill setups:
-Shield Charge + Faster Attacks + Fortify, golem (chaos golem?)
-Molten Strike + Faster Attacks + GMP + Multistrike
-CWDT + Increased Duration + Immortal Call/Blade Vortex, Blood Rage (leveled too high for CWDT to support it).

You could also play a rather effective Champion, if the idea strikes you. He gets permanent fortify, so this saves links. A skill tree like this could work with a similar setup to that described above, but he would need to use Warlord's Mark instead of a DPS curse to get leech. Since he's always fortified, you can do the following with your skill setups:
-Shield Charge + Faster Attacks + Leap Slam, golem (chaos golem?)
-Molten Strike + Faster Attacks + GMP + Multistrike
-CWDT + Increased Duration + Immortal Call/Blade Vortex, Blood Rage (leveled too high for CWDT to support it).
It squeezes in an extra movement skill/slot for something else.

Hope that's some food for thought for you!

-Savage