[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

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ES recharge is a separate mechanic from ES regeneration. Bated Breath will not improve the regeneration from Vile Ward, Occultist Ascendant, or from Zealot's Oath. If it did, you'd see RF ES builds abusing it!

Thanks, I read an article about energy shield to clarify it for myself (should have done it in the first place to be honest).

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Don't combine reflect with Curse Immune, -max res, Ele Weakness. Or rather, you have to be extra careful if you do that. If you meet an ele reflect rare in a map with those things, kill it in the middle of a pack - that way you will leech from many mobs at once while taking reflect damage from it. Ruby flask too.

I have the best luck ever - yesterday I had THREE maps IN A ROW with Elemental Equilibrium + Fire resist +60% and reflect. Three damn times - RNGesus owes me a few orbs now.

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Video update:

Reflect + No Regen = No Problem (+bonus ending)

Just make sure everything you hit stays within the WM aura. Watch out for rares with their own extra reflect and curse immune types. If you meet any of those, mix them with normal mobs and pop a Ruby flask.

Best ending ever :D
I hate temporal chains - my skill dodging stuff is already bad and that just makes it all the more difficult, I used up all portals doing Malformation map.
And I don't want to neglect difficult maps because if I don't learn how to move properly right now - I will never have a chance in apex.

Hey Kelvynn, nice guide, nice videos, congrats mate!

I wanted to ask if u have calculated your sustained icestorm dps with the Firestorm calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_jqIx4zJa5Y1doWnJGQVEwczA/view

I have calculated mine with 6k average dmg and conc effect on humanoid targets with 0,45 casting time , and i seem to get something around 1 million dps.
I think this is a little too high, probably the spreadsheet is wrong?

If i consider the average hits per use is correct on the spreadsheet, and calculate the dps manually on my own, i find something around 200-250k dps which i think is a bit too low, considering the visual dps on bosses (how they melt).


Anyone else analyzed that spreadsheet, or the actual icestorm dps?

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nel0angel0 wrote:

Hey Kelvynn, nice guide, nice videos, congrats mate!

I wanted to ask if u have calculated your sustained icestorm dps with the Firestorm calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_jqIx4zJa5Y1doWnJGQVEwczA/view

I have calculated mine with 6k average dmg and conc effect on humanoid targets with 0,45 casting time , and i seem to get something around 1 million dps.
I think this is a little too high, probably the spreadsheet is wrong?

If i consider the average hits per use is correct on the spreadsheet, and calculate the dps manually on my own, i find something around 200-250k dps which i think is a bit too low, considering the visual dps on bosses (how they melt).


Anyone else analyzed that spreadsheet, or the actual icestorm dps?

Here's mine with the stats from the 1st post (with Flame Golem but without flasks/EO/RC) against a size 3 boss (such as Vaal or Atziri):



Pretty sure it's accurate. It's been around for quite a while and is included in the Wiki.

We rarely get to spam cast Icestorm on a stationary target, but when we do - it goes down like in the Uber video, with all their resists.

Hey Kelvynn, first of all thanks for the guide its an amazing build to speed farm. My question is this;

With double curse setup, would using Heretic's Veil be viable? i kinda tried to set it up since i got one recently but i lack a high level enlighten to keep reservation above managable levels to keep icestorm spamable. It also makes resists kinda hard to manage too :)

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Kelvynn wrote:

Here's mine with the stats from the 1st post (with Flame Golem but without flasks/EO/RC) against a size 3 boss (such as Vaal or Atziri):



Pretty sure it's accurate. It's been around for quite a while and is included in the Wiki.

We rarely get to spam cast Icestorm on a stationary target, but when we do - it goes down like in the Uber video, with all their resists.

I have been told by theorycrafting friends that the sustained dps outcome is not correct in this spreadsheet.

I tried to calculate manually and i get a different result.

When i say manually i mean i get the average number of hits per use (which is correct in spreadsheet) and then:
- number of casts per sec = 2,22 (in my case)
- in the 5,6sec that the icestorm lasts, i cast a total of 5,6 x 2,2 = 12,32 icestorms in 5,6 seconds
- each icicle drops every 0,1sec, so in one second we have 10 icicles
- the average number of hits per use is 15 (in my case) per icestorm, and each icestorm drops a total of 56 icicles (in my case), so 15 icicles average hit out of 56. That is 37.4% of icicles hit per icestorm.
- Each second, 10 icicles drop, if we take the 37,4% of 10, its 3,74. So 3,74 icicles average hit every second from each icestorm.
- As said earlier, when the 5,6 seconds end, 12 icestorms fall at the same time. For the 1 second interval thats 12 x 3,74 = 44,8. That is 44,8 icicles hitting the target PER second.
- 44,8 x 6000 average icicle damage (in my case) = 268800 damage per sec.

If u see something wrong in what i said please let me know, i find the method correct, though i find the outcome a bit lower than i expected, seeing the visual dps of icestorm when i cast on bosses.

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nel0angel0 wrote:

When i say manually i mean i get the average number of hits per use (which is correct in spreadsheet) and then:
- number of casts per sec = 2,22 (in my case)
- in the 5,6sec that the icestorm lasts, i cast a total of 5,6 x 2,2 = 12,32 icestorms in 5,6 seconds
- each icicle drops every 0,1sec, so in one second we have 10 icicles
- the average number of hits per use is 15 (in my case) per icestorm, and each icestorm drops a total of 56 icicles (in my case), so 15 icicles average hit out of 56. That is 37.4% of icicles hit per icestorm.
- Each second, 10 icicles drop, if we take the 37,4% of 10, its 3,74. So 3,74 icicles average hit every second from each icestorm.
- As said earlier, when the 5,6 seconds end, 12 icestorms fall at the same time. For the 1 second interval thats 12 x 3,74 = 44,8. That is 44,8 icicles hitting the target PER second.
- 44,8 x 6000 average icicle damage (in my case) = 268800 damage per sec.

If u see something wrong in what i said please let me know, i find the method correct, though i find the outcome a bit lower than i expected, seeing the visual dps of icestorm when i cast on bosses.

Did you count Spell Echo for your casts per sec? We double cast with 71% MORE cast speed. See Offense-Details in the 1st post and multiply your DPS by 2.56 if you missed it.

Target size matters as well. Size 3 target (Atziri, Vaal, carrion queen sized large things) is going to get hit more often than size 2 (typical humanoid, your char, Piety, etc).

I also have slightly longer duration (5.87, it scales with Int) and more than 2x the average hit. Rounding and small math things aside, sounds about right.

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exsvar wrote:

Hey Kelvynn, first of all thanks for the guide its an amazing build to speed farm. My question is this;

With double curse setup, would using Heretic's Veil be viable? i kinda tried to set it up since i got one recently but i lack a high level enlighten to keep reservation above managable levels to keep icestorm spamable. It also makes resists kinda hard to manage too :)

Already covered on page 2. Can't make the mana reservation work, and simply converting Enfeeble from CWDT to aura is not worth such a huge pain.

CWDT Enfeeble actually works better against ranged attackers (see the Uber video, right at the start). Enemies that are already in the WM aura are usually stunned and can't hit you anyway.

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Kelvynn wrote:

Did you count Spell Echo for your casts per sec? We double cast with 71% MORE cast speed. See Offense-Details in the 1st post and multiply your DPS by 2.56 if you missed it.

Target size matters as well. Size 3 target (Atziri, Vaal, carrion queen sized large things) is going to get hit more often than size 2 (typical humanoid, your char, Piety, etc).

I also have slightly longer duration (5.87, it scales with Int) and more than 2x the average hit. Rounding and small math things aside, sounds about right.

- Spell echo is calculated in the 2,22 casts per second. In character info you can see yours too.
- I am talking about humanoid target, so size 2 for the sake of the calculation
- If you put my stats in the firestorm calculator it will show an outcome of over a million dps

What do u mean multiply my dps by 2,56? Is there a mistake in the method i used?

Please explain

I looked into the math used by the Firestorm Calculator, and... it's wrong! In just one place: the Sustained Casting DPS formula.

It does everything correctly until then, so it's easy enough to fix: open it in Google Sheets, select that cell and edit its formula.

It says: =D3*G17*D4/D5
It should say: =D3*G17/D5

The author forgot to remove "D4" from it, and currently it's wrongly multiplying the sustained dps by the skill duration, i.e. by 5.87 in my case.

The corrected sheet:



That's with the Golem. When EO is active, that number is about 700k.

So it's not as high as previously thought, only 500-700k sustained. But what makes the real difference against the bosses is penetration. We kill them faster than a lot of other high DPS builds because more of our damage actually reaches the target.

Chaos damage builds are all the rage in the current meta: Voltaxic, or Ice Traps converted to chaos. But they do only 25% of their advertised DPS to a highly resistant boss (resistances are hard capped at 75%). There is no Chaos Penetration.

Whereas this build penetrates 38% (gem) + 5% (Elementalist) = 43% fire resistance and does 25+43=68% of the damage shown by the calculator, or 2.72x what the no-penetration builds do with the same listed DPS.

If I'm not wrong, most of the hardest bosses of the game (Atziri, Core Malachai) have only 15% chaos Resistance. This is the reason why chaos builds are very effective in the current state of the game.

Plus, in 2.2 both Ascendant (-15%) and Occultist (-20%) got some enemy chaos resistance lowering mechanics. This made some builds shine even more than they did before.

Kelvynn, what do you think of this pathing to Unwavering Stance?

It costs 3 more points and loses 28% all res, but grants another 80 more int (and 40% mana regen). Kraityn could compensate 10% all res for another point.

I started Perandus with a different whispering ice char that I didn't perfectly like in the end: 1) It was some low-life shavronne stuff, which just wasn't worth it (just as I read later from both you and Baalorlord) and 2) it was as a Witch: Elementalist.
After reading several guides I'm now mid merciless following yours, and even though the build certainly lacks the resistances from jewelry, it does not look that bad. Getting to the 75% cap without ele weakness seems easily doable, and with it seems at least not too far fetched, from what I calculated/estimated.

With your high-end content experience, would you agree and consider the additional int, or still go for the extra res?