The Labyrinth is not fun

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Vortextreme wrote:

Playing an ARPG you assume a bit more responsibility for more directly controlling the char, but success or failure should still depend primarily on char abilities. The player's ability to avoid traps and run bypasses RPG mechanics entirely.

I disagree about char abilities mattering more than direct control. Else, you can't really weed out people that copy builds and all that.

Also, the traps don't bypass all the RPG mechanics, there are many ways to counterplay with your build.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Vortextreme wrote:

Playing an ARPG you assume a bit more responsibility for more directly controlling the char, but success or failure should still depend primarily on char abilities. The player's ability to avoid traps and run bypasses RPG mechanics entirely.

I disagree about char abilities mattering more than direct control. Else, you can't really weed out people that copy builds and all that.

Also, the traps don't bypass all the RPG mechanics, there are many ways to counterplay with your build.

Weed out? What is the concern?

While some chars might have the skills to avoid the traps, some wont. You shouldn't have to change your build for one area that doesn't match the primary content of the game.

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Vortextreme wrote:

You shouldn't have to change your build for one area that doesn't match the primary content of the game.

You should. If you can't change your build to fit new content then your build is bad and you should work on making it better.

lab is definetly fun.
11 divines for yesterday +viable head enchant. 13-14 min run.
gems still level up? about 60kk gem exp while getting challenge

I really dislike the idea that they call this little mess an expansion. Recycle some tile sets and make a random dungeon of frustration out of it? More like a shtty content patch but surely no "expansion".

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Willemoesium wrote:

When i finally finished the labyrinth in all difficulties, with blood sweat and tears, I really never wanted to do it again.

+100500

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Char1983 wrote:

The traps are designed in such a way that you have to avoid them. If you could just tank them, where would the challenge be? You have to show that you are good at not just making a build or following a build guide and acquiring gear, but at actually controlling your character and making good choices while in game. If you are, you are worthy of ascending.

That's exactly part of the problem - this is not how it works! You CAN just tank them if you have the right cookie cutter build focusing on high regen relative to max hp+es. Or even if you just have good flasks compared to your hp+es. The entire "you must dodge them" mechanic does not work - with the right build, you can just walk right through them. On the other hand, with builds that are perfectly servicable for all other content in the game, traps will still kill you in seconds and may not even be able to get meaningful extra time out of flasks. No matter how good your build is at normal content, laby forces a different set of concerns on you, one where maxhp and maxes are actually bad to have large quantities of. It is broken, and it must be fixed or removed, or it will continue to drive players away. If traps were actually fixed DPS based on area level, I think you'd instantly see over half the dislike of lab go away. The hp+es scaling isn't even achieving what it's intended to achieve, so it's got to go or at least be patched such that it does, in fact, prevent people from trivially tanking traps with certain builds.

personally i'm starting to sick not from Labs nonsence only, but also from these "i'm bored from regular arpg give me some atari boulderdash for next half a year and others can go suck dicks" no life elitism pukes

no wonder that community splitting (

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That's exactly part of the problem - this is not how it works! You CAN just tank them if you have the right cookie cutter build focusing on high regen relative to max hp+es. Or even if you just have good flasks compared to your hp+es. The entire "you must dodge them" mechanic does not work - with the right build, you can just walk right through them. On the other hand, with builds that are perfectly servicable for all other content in the game, traps will still kill you in seconds and may not even be able to get meaningful extra time out of flasks. No matter how good your build is at normal content, laby forces a different set of concerns on you, one where maxhp and maxes are actually bad to have large quantities of. It is broken, and it must be fixed or removed, or it will continue to drive players away. If traps were actually fixed DPS based on area level, I think you'd instantly see over half the dislike of lab go away. The hp+es scaling isn't even achieving what it's intended to achieve, so it's got to go or at least be patched such that it does, in fact, prevent people from trivially tanking traps with certain builds.

Actually... I have a life based build and a CI build. Both of them have decent amounts of their stats. And none of them has any issues with traps. Neither can tank them though. The CI char can mostly run through traps because almost all layouts can be passed without dying by just using whirling blades over them. And after that I just recover all ES. I can even stand on spike traps, since they are so slow that ES recovery starts before the trap moves up again and as an Occultist my recovery won't stop when I take damage if it started before.. and all I did for that basically was skilling Essence Surge and being an Occultist. Other CI chars won't be able to just stand on them however the recovery would still start and give them plenty of time to move of the trap.

The traps actually do exactly what they should. They keep you on watch and that's all they should do. If you did a few runs you likely encountered a lot of the avaible trap layouts already and from what I have seen so far they are very fair and mostly even entirely skipable with lightning warp (which often is slower than just walking over the traps, however it is a lot safer). Flamedash makes a lot of the traps quicker to pass than LW, since it actually displaces you (different to Whirling Blades) so you won't take damage from traps you pass (which can happen with whirling blades, but doesn't always happen). I'm not sure if I'm just so good at the labyrinth which I highly doubt or if people are just so unused to watch their step. I'm always irritated when people complain about flame bearers or similar mechanics. Even with Firestorm I notice that the mobs have those mods and I pay attention and traps are very similar. They require attention, and you pay them just that, they aren't really that much of a challange.

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adam9001 wrote:

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Vortextreme wrote:

You shouldn't have to change your build for one area that doesn't match the primary content of the game.

You should. If you can't change your build to fit new content then your build is bad and you should work on making it better.

Expanding your build to do new things is very different from changing it outright. We shouldn't have to change our builds, just maybe tweak them a little by adding in a different skill or two, or learning how to do things in a faster way.

Part of the point of PoE is that we can play builds that do different things. All base types should be able to make it through the labyrinth as long as the player is able to see what s/he is doing and to learn from mistakes and incorporate new approaches to tackle the situations presented.


-VG-