I never want to play the labyrinth ever again.

i am at the same point ingame

i wanna make builds with the new tree but its hidden behind the lab

i have no hope to make cruel or merciless lab under this conditions

this is really sad and i dont understand why its done in this style

it seems that developers today worked with the same patterns i dont know

GGG u made a so unique game - u doing too much - sit down - relax - stay healthy - make new areas/acts and bugfixes and its done !

PoE = Builds = Fun

PoE = Lab = *no comment*

PoE is the best game --- but ONLY in his purest form and i know that for sure cause i am a Watcher over decades of gaming :D

Again, if you do not like the lab, have someone run it for you. Technical problems aside, that will get you your ascendancy points for a maximum of 5 chaos per difficulty. Not that much, if you are honest.

If you make the choice not to go that route, well...

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Char1983 wrote:

Again, if you do not like the lab, have someone run it for you. Technical problems aside, that will get you your ascendancy points for a maximum of 5 chaos per difficulty. Not that much, if you are honest.

If you make the choice not to go that route, well...

You shouldn't have to pay or have someone help you with character progression. In principle, it's the same reason why Malachai was nerfed from his previous iterations. He was certainly doable, it's just that he was so tedious due to his huge health pool that he had to be nerfed because he was causing a significant amount of the population to either pay for kills or simply just give up.

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allbusiness wrote:

You shouldn't have to pay or have someone help you with character progression.

True. And you don't have to. You can do it yourself, if your build is somewhat decent and your skills are okay.

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allbusiness wrote:

In principle, it's the same reason why Malachai was nerfed from his previous iterations. He was certainly doable, it's just that he was so tedious due to his huge health pool that he had to be nerfed because he was causing a significant amount of the population to either pay for kills or simply just give up.

I honestly think that Malachai was nerfed too hard on Normal and Cruel, but that is a different story.

Izaro is certainly doable as well, but I think it should take skill and a somewhat decent build to do so. If you cannot do it on Merciless at lvl 75, wait until you are 80. I did it at 77, now 86, and I have grown SO much stronger in the meantime. And I still do not even have a 5link.

Ascendancies are something that is locked behind difficulty and skill (especially the traps require skill). I like it much better to have it gated behind skill than to have it gated behind RNG (like high-level maps or Enchantments). You ascend - that should not come for free, right?

I don't have any issues doing doing the labyrinth but I can see why so many people hate it. It's absolutely a chore and tedious, very similar to Malachai pre-nerf.

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allbusiness wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

...

**-lolManRYouForReal?

...
Let's try to reply with something more then 'lolyourbad.' Thanks. Because if we want to play that game, I can play the 'you play standard like a scrub' card.

There are some people that will ignore all arguments and discussions and instead just insult and belittle people that they don't agree with. It is probably best to just ignore these kind of people.

this is how i felt after first lab run in phc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

How I would make the labyrinth not such a chore:

1. Deaths and disconnects don't reset the labyrinth. Only completing the labyrinth resets the labyrinth.
2. Place waypoints after the first two fights against Izaro that reset upon completion of the labyrinth.
3. The main pathway is now a straight shot. No more hiding Izaro and the ascendancy trials behind locked doors, convoluted routing, and backtracking. The traps, mobs, lag, and disconnects make the labyrinth tedious enough; I don't want to fight the map as well.
4a. If you want to entice players to explore side areas, move the gear enchantments out from behind the final trial and into another area. Maybe behind Argus. Maybe behind a separate pathway through a series of traps and golden doors.
4b. As others have noted, it might be best to move ascendancy points out from behind the labyrinth altogether. Both Malachai and Dominus currently have no rewards other than progressing in the game. Maybe give them the ascendancy points rather than Izaro.
4c. Make each fight against Izaro give a bonus. If you defeat him in the first trial, you get an ascendancy point. Defeat him in the second, you get another ascendancy point. After the third, you get the gear enchantment and the treasure key. This way you're not totally screwed if the game craps out on you at some point, *and* you can just leave after the second Izaro fight if you dislike running the labyrinth. This might be a decent compromise between 'You need to remove the ascendancy points from behind the labyrinth' and 'We need an incentive for people to play our new content.'



There's a great thread over on the World of Warcraft forums that was posted about a year ago - a few months after that game's newest expansion. The thread basically said that certain activities, even though they took very little time or effort to complete, acted as a drain on a player's enjoyment and their in-game 'stamina.' The more stamina these mundane activities consumed, the less time players spent playing the game. Which eventually led to a mass exodus of subscribers.

In PoE, there's very little in-game cost or stamina cost required to run maps or Dried Lake or even to level up a new character. There's a huge stamina cost to run the labyrinth. The time it takes to explore; knowing I can't screw up or have a lag spike or server disconnect; the traps and layouts designed to hinder speed and freedom of movement; the "mandatory" rewards locked behind a series of boss fights *on top* of its elaborate maze, traps, and locked doors ... These are all factors in the labyrinth's stamina costs. It makes me less likely to not only run the labyrinth, but to play other aspects of the game as well. And knowing I have to run the labyrinth at least three times for each new character compounds its stamina costs, making it a *massive* disincentive to level a new character and try new skills. In short, the labyrinth makes me not want to play PoE.


Also, while I am a fan of the power of ascendancy skill points, I'm not a fan of ascendancy classes (if that makes any sense). But I feel like that ship has well and truly sailed.


Finally, it really feels like ascendancy classes, the labyrinth, and the main game are pulling in 3 (or more) directions. Ascendancy doesn't feel very cohesive. At all.

(It's entirely possible I screwed up the concept of stamina costs, but it makes sense to me. I'm not sure the rules on posting links, but if you're looking for a thorough explanation, google 'wow torvald stamina' and it should be the first link.)

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And1111 wrote:

this is how i felt after first lab run in phc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

This is me every run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN88tGvlwcU

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allbusiness wrote:

You're gonna tell me that they just left Kaom Dream's mobs/Belly of The Beast Mobs as is because they just wanted them to one shot people in end game scenarios? Even after the nerf, Revenants can still one shot you under the right circumstances. And yes, before you go off on your tirade about how you're so good at the game, how about you go ahead and try and ghost bust a Revenant or a Rakango in like a 74+ map and see how that goes for you, especially if you are a non armor class.


Let's try to reply with something more then 'lolyourbad.' Thanks. Because if we want to play that game, I can play the 'you play standard like a scrub' card.

next time avoid stating your opinions as facts. because you know what? i see the 'monster strength' differently. you implied that your theory is a reason why ggg did what they did. in fact it is a product of your imagination you want to use to put your point across. it does not work that way.

act4 mobs are ok. in fact ill take 'ghosted revenant' over a pre 2.1 pack of white cannibals in a XX% damage added as element. that sh.. was and still is scary.