Suggestion (updated): One of the biggest gripes with the Labyrinth can be solved by...

Some say the Labyrinth is tedious, boring, long, clunky and awful, whereas others say the opposite of those things, all of which are subjective either way, but just about everyone agrees (myself included) that dying in the Labyrinth only to be sent back to the Sarn Encampment town is off the charts terribly annoying where you have to go through the loading screen all over again and run through the very first chamber before you actually get inside the Labyrinth.

That may not sound like a long distance to travel, but depending on how many times a player dies having to go through that process over and over, the travel distance adds up over time, and it just makes the whole Labyrinth experience feel more dragged out than need be.

So instead of having players sent back to the Sarn Encampment town immediately after death, one of the biggest gripes just about everyone has with the Labyrinth can be solved by simply sending players back to square one at the entrance where they first entered the Labyrinth with an unexplored map, albeit with the same map layout (until it changes when it changes).

The solution is not to get rid of the mechanics that make the Labyrinth what it is with its many traps that some players suggest should be done away with entirely... The solution is to simply make the Labyrinth streamlined by a negligible degree by starting players off at square one at the entrance while still maintaining the idea of the Labyrinth to be challenging.

My suggestion may not sound like a huge change to some players, but just making restarting the Labyrinth quicker alone (as explained) will make the Labyrinth experience feel less burdensome.



That concludes my suggestion.
HeavyMetalGear

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

[...]but just about everyone agrees (myself included) that dying in the Labyrinth only to be sent back to town is off the charts terribly annoying where you have to rediscover everything on the map all over again.

I don't.

Also, you can do the lab much faster after you have discovered half of it. The doors to the next rooms stay always in about the same locations, the general layout is the same. So you already got what you are supposedly asking for.

Starting at the beginning of a half-cleared lab? I would just start over. The result would btw be that everyone would complain about all the backtracking.

And it would also not be that easy, because the mobs to refill your flasks between the traps would be missing. Honestly, I think this is a really bad proposed solution (to a problem I do not really see in the first place).

I like the Labyrinth, but after a few trials on Merciless, the full loss on death is weighing on me pretty heavily and I am willing to concede that checkpoints at each stage of the Izaro fight are needed for an enjoyable player experience.

Even with these checkpoints, a full reset of the fight would still be significantly harder than Malachi, because it removes death rushing. At Merciless, the unique mechanics of the fight become more relevant and learning them all is a process. Even if you master them, some are significantly more important than other, like the Conductors, which is careful balancing act combined with a DPS check with one mistake with Izaro on full power charges resulting in a one shot.

I had very little issues with the Labyrinth on normal or Cruel, but my two Merciless runs have ended with Izaro at 20%ish on third fight with a one shot to a charge. Both of those losses just sapped all motivation out of me, leading me to log off and try again the following day.

Combine with a lack of motivation in general to do the Labyrinth, particularly as a self found player is quickly turning it into an annoying chore. The restrictions on stash access result in only accumulating a small set of loot per section without backtracking. This is just very inefficient in comparison to doing maps for loot that allow you a limited number of portal. Maps produce greater awards and aren't as stressful.

The enchantments themeselves also provide a lack of incentive. The boots and gloves are the only ones I see it worth it to go for, because the pool for each is 1 out of 15ish. The pool of helm enchants are 1 out of 218 and as self found, it's just not worth it to do it over and over again to get a relevant skill enchantment. In a Bernoulli trial, you would have do 5 runs to get 96% probability of getting the boot or glove enchant you want; its over 1000 for the same probability with the helms.

I abosolutely loved the design of the Labyrinth and the fights, but if the full reset on death is wearing me down, then you are going to just end up with a large section of content that the majority of players aren't going to bother with unless you compromise on this issue.

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Char1983 wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

[...]but just about everyone agrees (myself included) that dying in the Labyrinth only to be sent back to town is off the charts terribly annoying where you have to rediscover everything on the map all over again.

I don't.

Also, you can do the lab much faster after you have discovered half of it. The doors to the next rooms stay always in about the same locations, the general layout is the same. So you already got what you are supposedly asking for.

Starting at the beginning of a half-cleared lab? I would just start over. The result would btw be that everyone would complain about all the backtracking.

And it would also not be that easy, because the mobs to refill your flasks between the traps would be missing. Honestly, I think this is a really bad proposed solution (to a problem I do not really see in the first place).

This as well. If you are going to do it, then just add checkpoints at each stage of the boss fight. You are just trading out one annoyance for another.

Just keep at it after you have done the lab a couple of times it gets a Lot easier. If you are having problems running it then level up a few times and then go back. You will probably start to enjoy it and have fun with it once you learn some of the basics about it. When I started a lab run was 45+ mins now im down to 10 mins or so. (I get distracted by the shinnies)

Its not any different than when you first encountered any new content in poe, it was HARD then you run it and it gets easier. Atziri was insanely hard to beat now she is a joke, same with Dominus, same with malachai.

Enjoy the challenge because once you conquer it its back to endless map runs.

You know what checkpoints before each stage would do?

I would go into the stage, check what the specialties of the day are. If I fail to take them down, I would just deliberately die and restart. Is that a good concept? No, it is not. Thus, checkpoints before the fight are not a good concept.

If anything, they would have to be AFTER the fights. But I generally think there should be no checkpoints.

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Char1983 wrote:

You know what checkpoints before each stage would do?

I would go into the stage, check what the specialties of the day are. If I fail to take them down, I would just deliberately die and restart. Is that a good concept? No, it is not. Thus, checkpoints before the fight are not a good concept.

If anything, they would have to be AFTER the fights. But I generally think there should be no checkpoints.

Congratulations. You have won checkpoints after the fight.

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MadRabbitPoE wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

You know what checkpoints before each stage would do?

I would go into the stage, check what the specialties of the day are. If I fail to take them down, I would just deliberately die and restart. Is that a good concept? No, it is not. Thus, checkpoints before the fight are not a good concept.

If anything, they would have to be AFTER the fights. But I generally think there should be no checkpoints.

Congratulations. You have won checkpoints after the fight.

After each fight is definitely the better way to go IMO.

I wasn't really in agreement with the idea until this possibility was mentioned. Now ... yeah, I'm in. The lab would still be hardcore-esque like GGG wants, but maybe not so infuriating for so many players out there.


-VG-

I mean you just ran the lab, and it's exact same layout.. how do you not remember where to go? It's a simple exercise in orientation and memory.

Kinda like what everyone did driving back when GPS and Google maps did not exist.

im one of these that loves current lab implementation and oppose any and all 'make it easy QQ' ideas

however this one is really good. it saves loading times (for some it is a huge deal). saves no value plaza run. does not remove even a tiny bit of the original design. and while being punitive enough (time lost, xp loss, general failure) is not as mean as now you have to look for the entrance again

+1 (ofc all mobs are alive and the loot on the ground is removed - looking at you animate weapon)