First Wave of Trade Improvements

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Wazz72 wrote:

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Gemini666 wrote:

where is now the "GGG" politics which only cosmetic items is vending as microtransactions and game content is not sold?
smells like everything changes. and sounds dishonorable do this.

Exactly! This is the issue I - among others - have with this feature: not the money, but the principle.
And to the others posters who pointed out that extra stash tabs where already p2w, that was debatable, given the possibilities of muling and alt accounts- my personal view of the mattare is that they are borderline p2w... With this feature only given to Premium Tabs, there's no debate imho.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

Free to play means that the entire game is available to play without a dime spent, it also means that a freeloader has to be able to experience the game at hand without spending a single dollar. This is still the case, no point in arguing any further. There are many games out there that are gating content and power behind paywalls, POE is not doing so, at all. One may argue that they gate the added utility behind premium tabs, but as long as GG does not take anything away as a result, there is nothing worth complaining about, at all.

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MaliceSong wrote:

I really don't understand why we're now implying everything was completely fine and this is just another option instead of a long due overhaul to the system all of these people had been asking for.

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MaliceSong wrote:

I mean, it's as you said: it comes down to the definition of ethical. Surely, though, it's a step away from the situation we're enjoying right now, independent of whether the change is indeed P2W or not. It's debatable whether that's good or bad.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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MaliceSong wrote:

I really don't understand why we're now implying everything was completely fine and this is just another option instead of a long due overhaul to the system all of these people had been asking for.

Keep in mind this is labeled by GGG as the "first wave", so we'll have to see what happens from here. All of the complaints, regardless of whether they are logical & sincere or just downright ignorant (yours being of the former), will hopefully help swing GGG's feelers into the overall community reaction and where to take the next step. So far the community response has been a mixed reaction between elation and anger.

So as you said, we'll have to see where it goes from here.

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MaliceSong wrote:

I mean, it's as you said: it comes down to the definition of ethical. Surely, though, it's a step away from the situation we're enjoying right now, independent of whether the change is indeed P2W or not. It's debatable whether that's good or bad.

Yup. One thing is for certain, that we can both probably agree upon: it's a fine line on the ethics, so it's easy to argue both sides. What we both don't want to see is this becoming a slippery slope for the micro-transactions store, with more non-cosmetic features and functions.

One thing I'm worried about is with this new functionality, 3rd party actors are going to have less incentive for maintaining their apps and utilities that are being duplicated by these features in the first wave.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

I believe everybody would be perfectly fine with it staying exclusive to premium tabs under one circumstance, and that circumstance would be to give players a way to earn at least one or two premium tabs as some sort of league challenge reward, for example. That way, bots are pretty much excluded, it would become widely available, as well as being a free feature.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

I believe everybody would be perfectly fine with it staying exclusive to premium tabs under one circumstance, and that circumstance would be to give players a way to earn at least one or two premium tabs as some sort of league challenge reward, for example. That way, bots are pretty much excluded, it would become widely available, as well as being a free feature.

That's a good idea. And it reminds me of LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online), which was at the time driven by Turbine before they were bought up. They took an MMORPG and went from subscription to F2P, however their micro-transaction store was not just cosmetic items, it also contained content. The content was behind a pay-gate. That sounds horrible, but the beauty of all of this was that you could earn its MT currency by playing the game and completing things. So you can play your way to more content and never have to spend a dime, even if it took you longer to get there.

So if GGG decided to hand out Premium Tabs or Premium Tab Upgrades as some sort of reward, I'd be all for that. Because I truly enjoyed Turbine's MT model with LOTRO, in which their other title DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) was already using.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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Wazz72 wrote:

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Gemini666 wrote:

where is now the "GGG" politics which only cosmetic items is vending as microtransactions and game content is not sold?
smells like everything changes. and sounds dishonorable do this.

Exactly! This is the issue I - among others - have with this feature: not the money, but the principle.
And to the others posters who pointed out that extra stash tabs where already p2w, that was debatable, given the possibilities of muling and alt accounts- my personal view of the mattare is that they are borderline p2w... With this feature only given to Premium Tabs, there's no debate imho.

If you complain about this new feature because it saves the player time and effort, then stash tabs have to have been p2w in your book as well, because they also saved the player time. There is nothing debatable here at all, either it is p2w because it saves time, or it is not.

And just to get this out the way: There is no game content being sold. No maps, no items, no characters, no passive nodes, no exp boosts, nothing... As such the p2w point of view is invalid.

Free to play means that the entire game is available to play without a dime spent, it also means that a freeloader has to be able to experience the game at hand without spending a single dollar. This is still the case, no point in arguing any further. There are many games out there that are gating content and power behind paywalls, POE is not doing so, at all. One may argue that they gate the added utility behind premium tabs, but as long as GG does not take anything away as a result, there is nothing worth complaining about, at all.

F2P confirmed, period.

For reference:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

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mindfreakk wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

I believe everybody would be perfectly fine with it staying exclusive to premium tabs under one circumstance, and that circumstance would be to give players a way to earn at least one or two premium tabs as some sort of league challenge reward, for example. That way, bots are pretty much excluded, it would become widely available, as well as being a free feature.

That's a good idea. And it reminds me of LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online), which was at the time driven by Turbine before they were bought up. They took an MMORPG and went from subscription to F2P, however their micro-transaction store was not just cosmetic items, it also contained content. The content was behind a pay-gate. That sounds horrible, but the beauty of all of this was that you could earn its MT currency by playing the game and completing things. So you can play your way to more content and never have to spend a dime, even if it took you longer to get there.

So if GGG decided to hand out Premium Tabs or Premium Tab Upgrades as some sort of reward, I'd be all for that. Because I truly enjoyed Turbine's MT model with LOTRO, in which their other title DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) was already using.

When I heard the trade improvements news and them being exclusive to Premium Stash tabs, that's what I thought. I hoped that the Perandus challenge league would award a premium stash tab, if that was the case I doubt anyone would complain.