Updated: Frost Blades has many 'possible' unintentional mechanic malfunctions. Please fix.

Update: According to feedback I got from other players in the community here, all Projectile-related nodes and gear mods do (behind the scenes) affect Skill Gems like Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike, yet the Projectile portion of those Skill Gems is not recorded anywhere in the tooltip or the Character Window, that which confused me and lead me to create this thread to 'suggest' that those Projectile values should be recorded in the tooltip and the Character Window.

Thank you, everyone, for clarifying certain things with Frost Blades. Furthermore, the Wiki has now been updated with better information (as a result of this thread, I suppose) regarding Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike.

EDIT: However (notice I underlined better in the above stated), the only thing the updated Wiki fails to explain is the relationship between Projectile Damage nodes and the Iron Grip Keystone regarding how they do affect Frost Blade's Projectile DPS (behind the scenes that is not recorded).

Those things should be explained and they are still not explained, not even on the Lightning Strike and Molten Strike Wiki pages.

The only thing the updated Wiki page talks about regarding the Projectile portion of Frost Blades is, and I quote, "Increased Projectile Speed will increase the range of the secondary projectiles." yet, again, forgets 'Projectile Damage' entirely. Why?! So Frost Blade's Projectile Speed is affected but not Frost Blade's Projectile Damage? That sure makes a lot of sense...

Why not call a dog what it is? a dog... Why not call projectiles what they are? projectiles... projectiles that receive both Speed and Damage increases from Projectile-based modifiers.

Another flaw in the updated Wiki information for Frost Blades is, and I quote, "The projectiles do the same damage as the initial attack, minus melee damage bonuses, so you'll be doing both physical and cold damage." which seems to suggest the Projectile Damage portion of Frost Blades does not act as a separate Damage type on its own that is affected by different modifiers that increase only the Projectile Damage portion of Frost Blades.

Therefore, what the Wiki should instead read is something like this, "The projectiles do the same damage as the initial attack, minus melee damage bonuses, so you'll be doing both physical and cold damage, and more Projectile Damage by itself in the event you allocate Projectile Damage nodes in the Skill Tree, affecting only the Projectile Damage portion of Frost Blades (or however somebody wants to word it on the Wiki for PoE).

I am currently a Level 53 Duelist, and the more nodes I allocate within the Skill Tree that have no effect on Frost Blades, the more unplayable, disappointing and contradicting Frost Blades becomes.

Why do Support Gems like Slower Projectiles not work with Frost Blade's projectiles, yet anything pertaining to Projectile Speed does?

It would be nice if such Support Gems did work with Frost Blades to make this Skill Gem a little more interesting since the secondary part of Frost Blades is categorized as 'Projectile', anyway.

Furthermore, allocating Iron Grip does not increase the damage of Frost Blade's projectiles, which is another disappointment (verified in-game with no numeric changes in the Character Window)

Iron Grip specifically says, "The increase to Physical Damage from Strength applies to Projectile Attacks as well as Melee Attacks." and it lies, because Frost Blade's secondary attack is Projectile.

I must also mention that every Projectile node in the Skill Tree with 'increased Projectile Damage' does not increase the Damage of Frost Blade's projectiles, YET Projectile nodes with 'increased Projectile Speed' does work?!

The mechanics of Frost Blades is riddled with contradictions. Frost Blades should operate as both a Melee Attack and a Projectile Attack, and it doesn't, receiving benefits only to its Melee Attack DPS in the Character Window.

P.S. Somewhat unrelated, but my friend I talked to about this tells me he linked Caustic Arrow (also a new Skill Gem) with Concentrated Effect, to which he did not see a DPS increase. Why?! This seems to be a trend with these new Skill Gems; additional DPS is not calculated from certain Support Gems. Now if you link Concentrated Effect with an older Skill Gem like Ball Lightning, you do see a change in DPS. What's going on?



If anyone can weigh in on this, please do.
HeavyMetalGear

When everything is wrong it is time to look at oneself: tooltip dps lists only the melee hit (initial hit) value. Iy is the same for all proj/melee skills like lightning strike or molten strike

Do your math yourself and you can bet it will be accurate

"

sidtherat wrote:

When everything is wrong it is time to look at oneself: tooltip dps lists only the melee hit (initial hit) value. Iy is the same for all proj/melee skills like lightning strike or molten strike

Do your math yourself and you can bet it will be accurate

At least with Skill Gems like Lightning Strike, the Lightning Damage and Physical Damage portions of the Skill Gem receive Damage bonuses from Skill Tree nodes that raise Physical and Lightning Damage with weapons.

That is not the case with Frost Blade's projectiles portion of the Skill Gem that receives no increase in Damage from Projectile nodes.

There is no math to do since the numbers do not show up in my Character Window, especially after I allocated the Iron Grip Keystone that should have given me an 87%+ increase to my Physical Damage (with all the Strength I allocated), and it didn't.

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

When everything is wrong it is time to look at oneself: tooltip dps lists only the melee hit (initial hit) value. Iy is the same for all proj/melee skills like lightning strike or molten strike

Do your math yourself and you can bet it will be accurate

At least with Skill Gems like Lightning Strike, the Lightning Damage and Physical Damage portions of the Skill Gem receive Damage bonuses from Skill Tree nodes that raise Physical and Lightning Damage with weapons.

That is not the case with Frost Blade's projectiles portion of the Skill Gem.

There is no math to do since the numbers do not show up in my Character Window, especially after I allocated the Iron Grip Keystone that should have given me an 87%+ increase to my Physical Damage (with all the Strength I allocated), and it didn't. Furthermore, again, the Projectile portion of Frost Blades receives no increase in Damage from Projectile nodes.

it does work with all those nodes u mention, the tooltip of frostblades does not show you how much damage the projectiles do, it just shows you the damage of the melee hit which is why it doesnt change when you spec those nodes.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

When everything is wrong it is time to look at oneself: tooltip dps lists only the melee hit (initial hit) value. Iy is the same for all proj/melee skills like lightning strike or molten strike

Do your math yourself and you can bet it will be accurate

At least with Skill Gems like Lightning Strike, the Lightning Damage and Physical Damage portions of the Skill Gem receive Damage bonuses from Skill Tree nodes that raise Physical and Lightning Damage with weapons.

That is not the case with Frost Blade's projectiles portion of the Skill Gem.

There is no math to do since the numbers do not show up in my Character Window, especially after I allocated the Iron Grip Keystone that should have given me an 87%+ increase to my Physical Damage (with all the Strength I allocated), and it didn't. Furthermore, again, the Projectile portion of Frost Blades receives no increase in Damage from Projectile nodes.

it does work with all those nodes u mention, the tooltip of frostblades does not show you how much damage the projectiles do, it just shows you the damage of the melee hit which is why it doesnt change when you spec those nodes.

No they do not.

I took a Screenshot of my Character Window before I un-allocated my Iron Grip Keystone and the Projectile nodes, and then when I did un-allocate those nodes, there were no changes to any number in my Character Window, which is a clear indication to me that those nodes do not work with Frost Blades at all (verified).

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No they do not.

I took a Screenshot of my Skill Tree before I un-allocated my Iron Grip Keystone and the Projectile nodes, and then when I did un-allocate those nodes, there were no changes in any number in my Character Window, which is a clear indication to me that those nodes do not work with Frost Blades.

thats what we are telling you, there is no numbers in your character window that display the damage of frostblades projectiles. Only numbers for its melee hit are given, so theres no way for you to see if the damage went up or down.

edit: and yes I find that amazingly frustrating too and I cant believe they havent gone in and made proper tooltip calculations and displays for all skills, esp dual wield reave, double strike etc.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No they do not.

I took a Screenshot of my Skill Tree before I un-allocated my Iron Grip Keystone and the Projectile nodes, and then when I did un-allocate those nodes, there were no changes in any number in my Character Window, which is a clear indication to me that those nodes do not work with Frost Blades.

thats what we are telling you, there is no numbers in your character window that display the damage of frostblades projectiles. Only numbers for its melee hit are given, so theres no way for you to see if the damage went up or down.

edit: and yes I find that amazingly frustrating too and I cant believe they havent gone in and made proper tooltip calculations and displays for all skills, esp dual wield reave, double strike etc.

Well that is B.S. then.

Why does this not seem the case for other Skill Gems I used that are categorized as both a Melee Attack and Projectile Attack? From what I recall (unlike Frost Blades), I was able to actually see changes in my Damage to both portions of those Skill Gems in the Character Window.

P.S. Now I am going to have to waste more Orbs of Regret on a mob or two just to see if there really is a change in damage that is not calculated in the Character Window.

There are just too many obscurities with Frost Blades to a very annoying degree. I do not ever recall having this many problems with any other Skill Gem of its 'type', and I have played through four Leagues.

EDIT: Unless someone tests this before I do, tomorrow (it is 4 AM for me now) I will test my DPS with and without my Iron Grip Keystone and Projectile nodes, and I will let you guys know whether or not I a see a behind-the-scenes increase in my DPS.

Snorkle is entirely correct heavy.

The character screen only displays any and all damage related figures to the melee component of the skill.

But the skill consists of first the melee component, which then releases a secondary component with different modifiers.(projectile based)

This has been an ongoing issue for as long as skills have existed with multiple components.

All the things you mentioned will influence the secondary component of the skill.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No they do not.

I took a Screenshot of my Skill Tree before I un-allocated my Iron Grip Keystone and the Projectile nodes, and then when I did un-allocate those nodes, there were no changes in any number in my Character Window, which is a clear indication to me that those nodes do not work with Frost Blades.

thats what we are telling you, there is no numbers in your character window that display the damage of frostblades projectiles. Only numbers for its melee hit are given, so theres no way for you to see if the damage went up or down.

edit: and yes I find that amazingly frustrating too and I cant believe they havent gone in and made proper tooltip calculations and displays for all skills, esp dual wield reave, double strike etc.

Well that is B.S. then.

Why does this not seem the case for other Skill Gems I used that are categorized as both a Melee Attack and Projectile Attack? From what I recall (unlike Frost Blades), I was able to actually see changes in my Damage to both portions of those Skill Gems in the Character Window.

P.S. Now I am going to have to waste more Orbs of Regret on a mob or two just to see if there really is a change in damage that is not calculated in the Character Window.

There are just too many obscurities with Frost Blades to a very annoying degree. I do not ever recall having this many problems with any other Skill Gem of its 'type', and I have played through four Leagues.

EDIT: Unless someone tests this before I do, tomorrow (it is 4 AM for me now) I will test my DPS with and without my Iron Grip Keystone and Projectile nodes, and I will let you guys know whether or not I a see a behind-the-scenes increase in my DPS.

If you add the support gem and a letter appears over your skill icon on your skills bar, that means the skill is being supported correctly and you are getting the expected benefit.

It works the same way with many skills, only the hit can be calculated on the tooltip dps. Viper strike is the same way; If I put void manipulation on it, the dps doesn't change, and in fact it doesn't even list the dps for the poison dot to begin with.

Best way to check is to equip the gem, see if the letter shows up on your skill, and compare your clear speed with and without the support gem.

"

Why does this not seem the case for other Skill Gems I used that are categorized as both a Melee Attack and Projectile Attack? From what I recall (unlike Frost Blades), I was able to actually see changes in my Damage to both portions of those Skill Gems in the Character Window.

There are only 3 two-part melee/ranged skills I think - Lightning Strike, Molten Shell, and Frost Blades. Sounds like you haven't tried any of them before.