Skeleton Mages and why they suck (and how to fix them)

The jewel really should have been made its own standalone skill gem instead of tacking it onto the regular Summon Skeletons.

If it was, then the skills Summon Skeletal Mage and Summon Skeletal Warrior could be decently balanced with each other, still have a combined cap of total number of skeletons out, be able to have their own proper supports, and fix the summon position issue.

Then a more interesting and less problematic threshold jewel idea could be used.

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SybilCut wrote:

I think I determined why classic spell supports do not work with the skeleton mages;

I tried Greater Multiple Projectiles, which did not function as it should, and I do think the reason that spell echo did work and GMP did not is because the spell has the Spell tag, and regardless of spawning projectile minions, does not have the Projectile tag. So I think that any spell-exclusive supports will work on the mages as intended, but projectile supports will not (an unfortunate interaction, and I'm not certain if they'll change it).

Well that logic fails if you look at the Spectre Gem. Raise Spectre is Spell and Minion, yet you can support it with anything that works with the Spectre you raise, it should work the same with the jewel skeletons.

I would change the jewel as following:

Sacrifice your Ability to Summon Skeleton Warriors
For Every 4 Warriors sacrificed gain one Skeleton Mage

With 4 jewels you would be able to turn all your warriors into mages, it would also mean that you always have just mages, since warriors wouldn't work that well, they wouldn't be useful anyway.

I feel most of those jewels encourage using more than one anyway.

Fixng the supports issue of course is a given thing for me.

Personally, I think threshold jewels was the wrong way anyways. Summoning mages should be possible with this gem as is - depending on your max skeleton count and the gem level. I'm pretty sure it would make long term balance/tweaking easier too. Also warriors are too slow, indeed. Is there a jewel to "fix" that too ? ;)

Hi

I love skeletons and totally agree it was high time those skeletal buggers got a mage skele gem instead of this threshold gem. The threshold gem in turn could've buffed either skele types. Hell the threshold gem could've even got chances each lvl to summon a champion or archer skele even...

BUUUUUTTTTT this is nothing new considering that MI is the forgotten keystone on the skilldrasil. GGG WHEN WILL THE FORGE GET TO WORK ON MI?, that keystone scales horribly with seemingly everything.

cheers

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Emphasy wrote:

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SybilCut wrote:

I think I determined why classic spell supports do not work with the skeleton mages;

I tried Greater Multiple Projectiles, which did not function as it should, and I do think the reason that spell echo did work and GMP did not is because the spell has the Spell tag, and regardless of spawning projectile minions, does not have the Projectile tag. So I think that any spell-exclusive supports will work on the mages as intended, but projectile supports will not (an unfortunate interaction, and I'm not certain if they'll change it).

Well that logic fails if you look at the Spectre Gem. Raise Spectre is Spell and Minion, yet you can support it with anything that works with the Spectre you raise, it should work the same with the jewel skeletons.

I feel as though that was a workaround with Raise Spectre in particular that was neglected with Dead Reckoning, although I could be wrong.

"

Jackinthegreen wrote:

The jewel really should have been made its own standalone skill gem instead of tacking it onto the regular Summon Skeletons.

If it was, then the skills Summon Skeletal Mage and Summon Skeletal Warrior could be decently balanced with each other, still have a combined cap of total number of skeletons out, be able to have their own proper supports, and fix the summon position issue.

Then a more interesting and less problematic threshold jewel idea could be used.

I agree with you here, although I have a concern with increasing the already high gem pressure on summoners that want to use a variety of summons and support skills. But as it is, the two effects seem so vastly different in their desired use that they might as well be their own skill gem, which would solve all of the listed problems. There is currently no "tactical" summon like a mage, which makes the mage summons quite fun in their positioning, but the fact that they're tied into the warriors makes it so unreasonably clunky.

"

SybilCut wrote:

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

The jewel really should have been made its own standalone skill gem instead of tacking it onto the regular Summon Skeletons.

If it was, then the skills Summon Skeletal Mage and Summon Skeletal Warrior could be decently balanced with each other, still have a combined cap of total number of skeletons out, be able to have their own proper supports, and fix the summon position issue.

Then a more interesting and less problematic threshold jewel idea could be used.

I agree with you here, although I have a concern with increasing the already high gem pressure on summoners that want to use a variety of summons and support skills. But as it is, the two effects seem so vastly different in their desired use that they might as well be their own skill gem, which would solve all of the listed problems. There is currently no "tactical" summon like a mage, which makes the mage summons quite fun in their positioning, but the fact that they're tied into the warriors makes it so unreasonably clunky.

Yeah, the number of summon gems is getting rather high but I think it's preferred to have the effect actually be possible and viable to use instead of tacking it onto a jewel with inconsistent or nonexistent support options that doesn't even work properly.

I suppose the tactical aspect and versatility of summoning a different ratio of mages to warriors depending on the enemies might make the gem slot cost alright. Or maybe you try and double up on supporting the mages and whatever spectre you chose such as fire hankies.

"

Jackinthegreen wrote:

Yeah, the number of summon gems is getting rather high but I think it's preferred to have the effect actually be possible and viable to use instead of tacking it onto a jewel with inconsistent or nonexistent support options that doesn't even work properly.

I suppose the tactical aspect and versatility of summoning a different ratio of mages to warriors depending on the enemies might make the gem slot cost alright. Or maybe you try and double up on supporting the mages and whatever spectre you chose such as fire hankies.

Honestly, here's how I'd solve it;

"

Dead Reckoning

Minions have +(7 to 10)% to all Elemental Resistances
With at least 50 Intelligence Allocated in Radius,
Summon Skeletons summons an additional Skeleton Mage at your side when cast.

that way it actually improves the overall strength of the jewel, allows you to tactically place mages with your skeleton totem (or hard casting), and allows warriors to be in place as they should be. It also leaves you with a reasonable mage cap, as it only adds a mage for every two warriors, causing your mage cap to be skeleton cap/3 (so with an Army of Bones cap of 15, would leave you with 10 warriors and 5 mages, which seems fine if your build is designed around skeletons as your summon).

Hire me, GGG. I'm not joking.

(watch this be the way they fix it.)

I have taken out Dead Reckoning from my build for now. It's fun but just isn't worth it for the moment.

"

Honestly, here's how I'd solve it;

"

Dead Reckoning

Minions have +(7 to 10)% to all Elemental Resistances
With at least 50 Intelligence Allocated in Radius,
Summon Skeletons summons an additional Skeleton Mage at your side when cast.

that way it actually improves the overall strength of the jewel, allows you to tactically place mages with your skeleton totem (or hard casting), and allows warriors to be in place as they should be. It also leaves you with a reasonable mage cap, as it only adds a mage for every two warriors, causing your mage cap to be skeleton cap/3 (so with an Army of Bones cap of 15, would leave you with 10 warriors and 5 mages, which seems fine if your build is designed around skeletons as your summon).

Hire me, GGG. I'm not joking.

(watch this be the way they fix it.)

I really like this idea, pretty elegant solution.

"

Khargan wrote:

I really like this idea, pretty elegant solution.

Thanks!

I really wouldn't be surprised if that's the fix they go with. It seems like the best choice as it is, honestly. It keeps the tie-in that they're looking for and allows for totems to do what they want and allows for more tactically positioned mages.

I'd like to see them solve the jewel that way.