The most horrible sub-forums ever?

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IceDeal wrote:

As long as you won't recognize that playing EA in pvp is giving you an unfair advantage against everyone by exploiting the fact that secondary damage bypass all defenses and that the skill scale so well by itself allowing you to focus on defenses, no one will take you seriously.

Heck even Mies agree that this shit is broken and he was the one who made it popular. It's ok to abuse something as long as you recognize it. I abused the shit out Tempest Shield on his previous form (never on a 6L though) and was thrilled to see fast hitter totally shut down by it but the skill was unfair and way too strong (GGG actually handled it really well, making it a fair skill while still remaining powerfull, i'd like EA to have the same treatment).

Please quote me on where, I think EA is not strong.

Thanks.

Edit: To critically understand what is mechanically strong, or stronger means that you're just a better min max player, the general consensus that EA is like a hack or bot, and everyone using it is a hacker/ should be banned. Yet, nobody acknowledges the also shotgun mechanic's of LA etc.

The notion of hipster-ism EVERYBODY IS PLAYING THAT BUILD I wana play something new that I invent myself is just stupid, everything is done before, what is being played the most, just means its the most commonly accept means of effectiveness.

Like I said before and again, EVEN if EA is completely deleted, They'll always be a new skill that's "Stronger" or you would say "BROKEN"/ "Unfair advantage" They'll never be true balance. Life is never fair get over it. It's a RPG, Time investment, and accumulated currency will almost always pay off, or else why don't we just play Moba games instead? If you want a "Fair" wealth society playing field.

or FPS games if you want "True" skill (everybody with google fibre ofc cause, "lag")

You still refuse to see it, what make EA so strong is not the shotgun effect (skills like LA, AB, FB even Kinetic Blast shotgun as well). The main difference is you CANT avoid EA damage, wich mean you will get shotgunned speed of light whatever you do.

Nothing in the game is as strong in pvp, the other skills are acceptable (as strong as they are) because they are ways to mitigate the damages (Block, Dodge, Blind, Enfeeble, ect...).
I higly doubt you would still play this skill without the secondary damages.

[Removed by Support] Meanwhile this is damaging this part of the game meaning that less people will potentially get interested into it, wich mean smaller player base, less interest from the Devs and ultimately death of it.

We don't rant about EA only because we got beaten by it (most us could build one as well and stomp casual calling them noobs like i see often in Sarn), we rant about it because fixing it would make pvp healthier and so more interesting and fun for everyone including yourself.

Q.E.D.

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tokimeki2003 wrote:

(There's been a pattern of his general hatred towards me for while now)

All the arguments that EA requires no skill, and anyone with no brain dead can master it, yet from many sources, many other EA users are beatable, especially in the higher echelon of players.

This is because of recent nerfs to EA. Previously ea was a lot stronger out in the open but now that wall spam is the only real source of DPS most EA users havnt adapted to the new techniques they need to use in order to win. You and Bitchslapped are really the only EA users that cause anyone any greif because you guys are built like a 2h melee character but deliver more dps than a crit character. That combined with the new frostwall mechanics and CWDT + flamedash make it nearly impossible for anyone to get away from you.

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tokimeki2003 wrote:

If you take a look at https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1485091/page/5 it's not that we don't respond correctly, nor produce a lack of creative content but there's a general voodoo dislike of EA and general circle jerking.

Its only human nature though, when people lose they cry, it's never their fault when they lose, it's always something else to blame. The failure to acknowledge one's fault is their own downfall, as they never improve.

TLDR, The salt is real.

Lib.

Back before the Big PvP patch I had a really OP build. 11k es 1k regen CI flicker dagger that could 1 shot 10k hp. I made this character to show off how OP flicker was because it was plaguing PvP. All my matches were 1 shot fests, whoever got flicker off the fastest would win there was no reason to use any other melee skill. People would insult me all the time saying things like im garbage, have no skill, im fat and like cheeseburgers ect but I never went around posting that im the #1 EU and US PvPer and I never took screen shots when i reached +1 on any ladder. I think thats why people are so agressive towards you even if your posts are more tongue in cheek, the PvP community has always been a bit brash and gloating only makes it worse especially when your one of the only ones playing a build that the entire community sees as being broken.

A lot of us old time PvPers have multiple builds that we can be successful with we dont have to rely on the most OP thing to do well, So far all anyone has seen is you are able to do well with EA perhaps if you also played a build that was seen as more of a staple or cookie cutter build and were successful with that people would take you more seriously.

You have to remember there have been a lot of people like you in the past. They show up with the new OP build and claim to be #1 but when their build gets nerfed a lot of those players disappear because they lack the knowledge of game mechanics they need to adapt their build or play something else. So when people see someone acting in a similar manner they tend to immediately dismiss them as just another person on the FOTM train.

I've been kicking deths ass since open beta pre 1.0 he's had some nasty chars and been around a long time.

Also I like EA how it is personally. For the sake of balance though and to appease everyone else id rather it do respectable single target dmg again and far less wall damage. Either way If it never got touched again It's ok. Ice explained you can dodge,block,etc..other skills well as 2h without acrobatics I can't do any of that shit anyways so manually avoiding attacks is how I survive and personally I don't find it that hard to see where stacks are stacking and avoid the walls even in the tight arenas. Still for the sake of everything being semi-viable against every build, right now it just dominates too many match ups. I gauge things on a match up basis like fighting games and if you were to separate skills/builds into tiers based on match up advantages/disadvantages. EA would dominate over most every low-mid tier build thus accelerating it up the tier lists. Where it would sit along side most spell builds and the ever obvious crit bow build(s). Mid to mid-high tier would consist of crit dagger, select 2h melee specs, 1h melee and a few niche builds you don't see much like trapper. Low tier should be obvious to most, i.e summoner/totems.

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lapiz wrote:

I'm doing this because I'm extremely annoyed and fed up.

PvP Feedback and the Discussion sub-forums are an embarrassment to Path of Exile. The game itself is awesome with limitless possibilities yet 90% of the people here are ignorant and even toxic who mostly only harm the remainings of the pvp community. The sad thing is that these 2 sub-forums are the current pvp scene of poe.

Almost all of the threads are full of unconstructed shit posts that only complain about everything just for the sake of complaining. A common feature is that the arguments behind all of the complaining are either nonexistant or completely irrational. Another common theme are the walls of texts that in the end serve no purpose but are merely random rants about phenomena of no importance.

If all the people who only complained actually did something for the community, the pvp scene would most likely be thriving. You keep claiming that GGG has given up on pvp yet you keep doing nothing yourselves.

As I've tried to imply before, balance is the least of pvp's problems. It is seriously the last reason why pvp isn't going anywhere currently. The single biggest reason is the sheer lack of an inspiring and supportive community.

If you have the will and fortitude to complain so consistently on behalf of pvp, try channeling that to actually improving the pvp experience in poe. The reason GGG isnt answering or doing much is because at the moment there is nothing worth acting on. Create, organize and be constructive if you want something to happen. Randomly ranting without proper arguments gets you nowhere.

Really good post. I'm a person who enjoys PVP but has been playing the game on and off so I'm not entrenched in the PVP scene like some of you... I have however been catching recently and it seems like the threads and discussions on these forums are not helpful for the most part. There are some great posts, like people posting their builds / ideas, or a couple of you have posted interesting PVP guides (like the one Mulla wrote on PvP). Then there's some people who sit on their high chairs and an even larger contingent of casuals that get destroyed in arena and then complain here.

I was really into the D2 PvP scene and frankly my love for D2 and disdain for D3 is what ultimately brought me to PoE. I think PoE is an incredibly well made game and I find it baffling that the PvP community is not larger or more engaged (in a unified way). PoE blows D2 out of the water in terms of depth and customization (and imo potential), but D2 really had the PvP community - yeah there were a ton of shithead town campers, farcasters, AA users, etc., but there were also a lot of good GM duelers as well. You could enter a PvP game anytime of the day, or you could hit up channels or other forums (d2j*p) to arrange dueling sessions.

Before I get flamed, I just want to say that this is my opinion of some things I'm seeing. Hopefully I can offer a different perspective since I have yet to be jaded or influenced by all the PvP history in this game. On the same note, I'm also not a total idiot as I've made some pretty successful builds that have done well.

(1) First of all, we should give GGG a break. Yeah, it does seem like they are spending less time making changes to PvP but you also have to understand that PvP is such a small part of the game and they need to cater to the wider PVM audience first (where they are getting most of their $$ from). Remember also that this is a very intricate game and balancing all the spells, support gems, passive nodes is a really freaking hard job - I don't know how big GGG is but I would imagine the dev team isn't that big and it takes a lot of time to implement / test any changes. I also have the viewpoint that as games get more complex, finding the right balance between PvP and PvM gets harder and harder - just look at what happened do D3 and PvP.

(2) The reality is that this game is really complex and I believe there's not enough good information on builds that casuals can pick up. I actually don't think some of you know big the gap is in terms of knowledge, not just currency. I've seen threads where veteran PvPers say that they have spent tens to hundreds of hours perfecting builds and min/maxing and that's why they are better and too bad for everyone else. Well, if you want to grow the community, you need to help the less informed out. If you're trailblazing Poe PVP, you should be out there fostering the community, not ego-boosting yourself and hiding everything you've learned. Post your builds, even if its a filtered version (GGG should also create a separate build forum page), volunteer to help out a noob, make a dedicated a channel where people can sit to arrange 2v2 or 4v4 dueling matches, host a dedicated TS server. Heck in D2 there was no organized system for PvP; we the community organized everything ourselves mostly.

(3) The last issue I see with PvP is around the currency hurdle and I'm not sure how we solve that. Many of the high performing PvPers have invested hundreds if not thousands of exalts into their characters. Outside of EA and maybe one other build, it's really hard to make an effective build with just 30ex. If there are lower budget, strong builds, you guys should be posting them!!! I'm trying to come up with a 30ex caster build right now that I think can be competitive (it's a bit strange). Good chance it's going to get wrecked but if it does succeed, its a way to get more people involved. Look, you don't need to give all your secrets away, but sharing and being open will only get others more excited. A lot of regular players aren't looking to be #1 and ROFLSTOMP everyone.. sometimes just being able to hang with the crowd is really fun.

On a final note, I'd love to contribute to growing the community. You can count me as one more person that's excited to see where PvP can go.

Kinda agree with FOTM builds, i have been into poe pvp since the very beginning and saw PLENTY train builds. Back when i was the first one to really max out the mighty op RF back then it created a huge train of that particular op spec until GGG nerfed it six feet under. I do agree that it was a quite boring spec, but particularly funny to watch people die in a second when you'd flicker on them, lol.

People will always play what is easy, what people have already done, what takes the least experience to start with and what will bring the most outcome and right now it's all pined down to EA. I dont want to bring down Lib but i will take it as an exemple, EA was a thing played by players who didn't want to invest too much in pvp and still dominate a lot of match ups, some people almost maxed it out but in reality it was the most budget friendly build out there and it was pretty easy to see that it could be too strong when maxed properly.

Lib is an exemple of a current pve player that wanted to step into the PVP scene and get the most outcome out of a current ''op'' skill. I'am almost certain that this particular person didnt want to jerk his head too much with trying too many things to see what works and what doesnt. I tried MANY, MANY, MANY type of caster builds and tried them all. While i do agree that if i was a current pve player i would not want to bust my head too much and i would probably go for the easy route like most EA players right now, most of them are casuals and been into pvp for not so long. It brings me down to why am i playing a caster when i could own more with a build that cost so much less ? It's because i saw, done, experienced and got bored of such things. I feel better maxing out a spec that requires more pvp experience, more crafting, planning than going for the easy route which everyone seems to be taking right now. Believe it or not i could afford the best of the best ea spec with 1/3 of what my caster spec costed me right now, funny fact is i could probably afford it with the amount of regrets i used over time in pvp lmao... thousands...

What makes people angry most of the time is players that introduce themselves by bragging with a skill that is considered OP while being too easy to spec right now, it's really a recipe for being hated.

I compare this to ''Grief'' sword back in diablo 2 where i used to do lots of zealot gm duels, where we would always ban this weapon because it was too strong, anyone who claimed or started bragging which that weapon was instantly downgraded and disliked by the community, it's pretty similar with EA in poe right now, players using grief in d2 were mostly trolls and was not really taking shit seriously.

Again, nothing against this particular Lib player, he did a good job of min-maxing out ea, but still nothing reguarding maxing EA is impressive, the most impressive builds are the ones sticking out of the batch, a build that not many plays and is able to still dominate a good amount of matchups when others are failing with it, that is impressive.

Cheers !

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hauntworld1 wrote:

It brings me down to why am i playing a caster when i could own more with a build that cost so much less ? It's because i saw, done, experienced and got bored of such things. I feel better maxing out a spec that requires more pvp experience, more crafting, planning than going for the easy route which everyone seems to be taking right now. Believe it or not i could afford the best of the best ea spec with 1/3 of what my caster spec costed me right now...

100% this, there is no best feeling in the world that when you finally managed to theorycraft a succesfull build and master it. That's also why so many players are reticent to give away their build because for most of us, it's the result of hundreds of hours of experience and theorycraft. But recently i've been more open about what i do and gladly link my gear or explain a bit of my spec to people asking for it.

I'd really like people to get into this state of mind because it's an incredibly satisfying part of the game way better than just following blindly a build found on the forum. But at the same time I do understand that this game can be very confusing some time and that some people don't have the motivation to try dozens of different variants of build before finding what's working.