The way you are avoiding Nullification is just a waste of points. Right, you need to spend 3 points instead of two, but Nullification gives you 5% maximum life that you can drop from somewhere else. Other stats are just bonuses. Coldhearted Calculation gives mana regen, we need this stuff now with Causting Arrow's increased mana cost.
It's my new version of the build (built as a ranger, but can go with Shadow aswell). Still thinking about lack of jewels slots (just two). But on new league, we don't want to spend currency on jewels but better gear. Drillneck's going to be expensive. Over 400% increased damage from the tree I did and still providing 186% increased maximum life & 147% increased evasion sounds very nice. Did i mentioned all frenzy charges are taken? You can sacrifice phase acrobatics for 4% more life and and one more jewel slot. I am proud of this tree :D
Last edited by SzejkM8 on Dec 9, 2015, 5:00:24 AM
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Posted bySzejkM8on Dec 9, 2015, 3:24:39 AMBanned
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Poison Arrow has been renamed to Caustic Arrow as part of the poison changes. The damage of this skill has been increased by around 37% at level 1, but reduced by around 42% by level 20. This reduction is more than compensated for by supporting the skill with the new supports. Caustic Arrow's mana costs have been increased, from 5 to 8 at level one, and from 13 to 16 at level 20.
Power Sip
Here are the information about the nerf
Looks positive :)
For my current builds, thoughts and videos.
youtube.com/andypistone
www.twitch.tv/GrocerySC
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Posted byGroceryon Dec 9, 2015, 5:06:19 AM
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The way you are avoiding Nullification is just a waste of points. Right, you need to spend 3 points instead of two, but Nullification gives you 5% maximum life that you can drop from somewhere else. Other stats are just bonuses. Coldhearted Calculation gives mana regen, we need this stuff now with Causting Arrow's increased mana cost.
It's my new version of the build (built as a ranger, but can go with Shadow aswell). Still thinking about lack of jewels slots (just two). But on new league, we don't want to spend currency on jewels but better gear. Drillneck's going to be expensive. Over 400% increased damage from the tree I did and still providing 186% increased maximum life & 147% increased evasion sounds very nice. Did i mentioned all frenzy charges are taken? You can sacrifice phase acrobatics for 4% more life and and one more jewel slot. I am proud of this tree :D
I just posted another updated tree, included some of your changes. You took an extra frenzy duration node that was not needed. I put this as a 100 point build. Obviously we can drop the extra chaos damage or phase acro if not level 100, like most people or a life node or two.
Thanks for the help!
For my current builds, thoughts and videos.
youtube.com/andypistone
www.twitch.tv/GrocerySC
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Posted byGroceryon Dec 9, 2015, 5:19:14 AM
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I'm still not sure how Void Manipulation is going to look at lvl20+. Calculations must be done if it's more profitable to take projectile damage and pierce + slower projectiles gems or chaos damage and Void Manipulation gem.
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Posted bySzejkM8on Dec 9, 2015, 5:38:37 AMBanned
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I'm still not sure how Void Manipulation is going to look at lvl20+. Calculations must be done if it's more profitable to take projectile damage and pierce + slower projectiles gems or chaos damage and Void Manipulation gem.
Of course much will be changing as we can play test :)
I suspect that void manip and slower proj will be the best value option as Drillneck + Pierce can be expensive. I think they will both have their spot though as pierce gives nice utility.
For my current builds, thoughts and videos.
youtube.com/andypistone
www.twitch.tv/GrocerySC
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Posted byGroceryon Dec 9, 2015, 5:44:07 AM
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Poison Arrow has been renamed to Caustic Arrow as part of the poison changes. The damage of this skill has been increased by around 37% at level 1, but reduced by around 42% by level 20. This reduction is more than compensated for by supporting the skill with the new supports. Caustic Arrow's mana costs have been increased, from 5 to 8 at level one, and from 13 to 16 at level 20.
Power Sip
Here are the information about the nerf
Looks positive :)
Im not sure how we do with the 42% less dmg at lvl 20.
It's the BASEDAMAGE, so how many multiplier do we need to compensate this ?
Dont we need nearly the DOUBLE on multipliers to compensate nearly 50% of basedmg loss ?
Last edited by Nyurael on Dec 9, 2015, 5:52:45 AM
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Posted byNyuraelon Dec 9, 2015, 5:51:41 AM
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If there were not so many new chaos and dot nodes on the tree I would be worried, but Chris himself said it was nerfed so hard to compensate for that fact. We will be okay, plus the new supports :)
All the supports are multipliers which is nice too
For my current builds, thoughts and videos.
youtube.com/andypistone
www.twitch.tv/GrocerySC
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Posted byGroceryon Dec 9, 2015, 6:06:18 AM
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But they are not multipliers for the whole skill but restricted damage type, projectile, chaos and dot's. Strong, but stil... We'll see.
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Posted bySzejkM8on Dec 9, 2015, 6:19:48 AMBanned
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But they are not multipliers for the whole skill but restricted damage type, projectile, chaos and dot's. Strong, but stil... We'll see.
Yea thats my thoughts too.
I'm rly not sure if we can compensate this.
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Okay, so this is an extremely rough estimate with quick math but
2.0 tooltip: about 29k damage (with 7 frenzy, golem)
2.0 actual damage: roughly 48k
2.1 tooltip: about 18.5-19k damage (with frenzy & golem)
2.1 actual: about 30-31k
Assuming void manipulation scales identically like slower proj with 10% increased damage on quality and 29% MORE damage on base at level 20
2.1 actual (swapping AoE gem for Void Manipulation): ~ 34-36k dps
So even with the gem change and getting rid of AoE, we stand to lose about 14k dps in a finished build.
KEEP IN MIND, this is completely guess-work and unknowable until the patch actually goes live.
The long and the short of it is that this build will be fine for regular mapping and even 78-80 maps, and regular Atziri, but it's probably dead for Uber Atziri and 81+ maps.
Who knows. Those are my preliminary thoughts anyway. Regardless, I'm confident in this build still being strong for MFing and mid to low-high tier maps. Regardless, I will continue to investigate this and other options.
REGULAR Poison Arrow, however, will be completely fine. So for those of you looking to run PA in a non-MF spec, you're good to go, because you will also get the advantage of being able to run Rapid Decay as your 6L, and just dropping the AoE gem.
Because we want to run IIR though, the only way to do is successfully and keep the damage comparable in the MF setup is to sacrifice a shitload on gear, including replacing the rare gloves with Aurseize, to get back up to 300% IIR before the IIR gem, but then the whole point of the build (aka, survivable, good damage, good MF combination) becomes pointless, since you'll always be at like... max, 4k life.
@ Grocery
in your current gear -> ur helmet is missing xD
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Posted byNyuraelon Dec 9, 2015, 6:30:18 AM
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But they are not multipliers for the whole skill but restricted damage type, projectile, chaos and dot's. Strong, but stil... We'll see.
Yea thats my thoughts too.
I'm rly not sure if we can compensate this.
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Okay, so this is an extremely rough estimate with quick math but
2.0 tooltip: about 29k damage (with 7 frenzy, golem)
2.0 actual damage: roughly 48k
2.1 tooltip: about 18.5-19k damage (with frenzy & golem)
2.1 actual: about 30-31k
Assuming void manipulation scales identically like slower proj with 10% increased damage on quality and 29% MORE damage on base at level 20
2.1 actual (swapping AoE gem for Void Manipulation): ~ 34-36k dps
So even with the gem change and getting rid of AoE, we stand to lose about 14k dps in a finished build.
KEEP IN MIND, this is completely guess-work and unknowable until the patch actually goes live.
The long and the short of it is that this build will be fine for regular mapping and even 78-80 maps, and regular Atziri, but it's probably dead for Uber Atziri and 81+ maps.
Who knows. Those are my preliminary thoughts anyway. Regardless, I'm confident in this build still being strong for MFing and mid to low-high tier maps. Regardless, I will continue to investigate this and other options.
REGULAR Poison Arrow, however, will be completely fine. So for those of you looking to run PA in a non-MF spec, you're good to go, because you will also get the advantage of being able to run Rapid Decay as your 6L, and just dropping the AoE gem.
Because we want to run IIR though, the only way to do is successfully and keep the damage comparable in the MF setup is to sacrifice a shitload on gear, including replacing the rare gloves with Aurseize, to get back up to 300% IIR before the IIR gem, but then the whole point of the build (aka, survivable, good damage, good MF combination) becomes pointless, since you'll always be at like... max, 4k life.
@ Grocery
in your current gear -> ur helmet is missing xD
Helmet added.
I am not planning as running as MF anyways, so it is fine for me. I ran MF in 2.0 as I had most of the gear already Serleth had a great guide. I am actually running very few MF items outside rings and IIQ gem, so I hope it was known I wasn't trying to make this an MF build. I will update gear once 2.1 hits. Should be a standardish Caustic build.
I trust Chris when he says the decrease will be made up with the new supports. It would seem odd to state it as such if it was such a huge dps loss. He could be wrong though ofc.
For my current builds, thoughts and videos.
youtube.com/andypistone
www.twitch.tv/GrocerySC Last edited by Grocery on Dec 9, 2015, 6:54:11 AM
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Posted byGroceryon Dec 9, 2015, 6:51:28 AM
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