Invasion: Bring it In As a Core Game Property [Strawpoll results inside]

While I do not believe Invasion should be part of the core game in Normal difficulty, from Cruel onwards it should be the standard.

Oh, and Beyond should start in Merciless.

I will disagree... While Invasion provides interesting variety to encounters, if it is present in the core leveling zones, it will RAPIDLY get repetitive.

It's for this same reason I don't feel that Beyond (as much as I love the concept) should ever appear outside of maps by default.

Simply put, if we have all these encounters, what's left to make maps interesting, and provide any semblance of randomness/risk? Invasion should definitely get its own map affix, like several other league mods already have. (Anarchy, Onslaught, Nemesis, Beyond, and Bloodlines)

Like most other content, making it a CONSTANT presence (as in, challenge-league presence, where it's in EVERY zone) would quickly burn it out. After all, that's supposed to be what challenge leagues are FOR... Seeing an overload of special encounters.

Right, I'm not saying that it should be an every-zone thing. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was thinking more along the lines of say:

* No Invaders in normal.
* 5% spawn chance in Cruel
* 10% spawn chance in Merciless

Or even just something along the same numbers they have for rogue exiles, then throw it on as a map affix to give players the opportunity to try it, or reroll.

Most of the invasion bosses have already been incorporated as bosses into the main game, seeing them double isn't particularly exciting. I wouldn't mind tho if GGG release new "surprise buttseks" bosses periodically that can appear randomly in maps and fuck you up.

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Serleth wrote:

Right, I'm not saying that it should be an every-zone thing. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was thinking more along the lines of say:

* No Invaders in normal.
* 5% spawn chance in Cruel
* 10% spawn chance in Merciless

Or even just something along the same numbers they have for rogue exiles, then throw it on as a map affix to give players the opportunity to try it, or reroll.

What exactly do people have against running into them in normal? They are barely a speedbump in normal and sure as hell livens up the most boring (imo) aspect of the game which is the early game. It's not like you're losing precious experience.

I'd say go the opposite of what you just suggested and have them spawn more in normal and less as you progress thru the difficulties unless you roll it on the maps. Don't like invasion bosses? That's fine you can skip them. :)

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Serleth wrote:

Right, I'm not saying that it should be an every-zone thing. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was thinking more along the lines of say:

* No Invaders in normal.
* 5% spawn chance in Cruel
* 10% spawn chance in Merciless

Or even just something along the same numbers they have for rogue exiles, then throw it on as a map affix to give players the opportunity to try it, or reroll.

What exactly do people have against running into them in normal? They are barely a speedbump in normal and sure as hell livens up the most boring (imo) aspect of the game which is the early game. It's not like you're losing precious experience.

I'd say go the opposite of what you just suggested and have them spawn more in normal and less as you progress thru the difficulties unless you roll it on the maps. Don't like invasion bosses? That's fine you can skip them. :)

The only reason I back the no-Normal-Invaders is out of consideration for new players. The game's got a pretty steep learning curve and can be pretty difficult even in Normal when you don't know what you're doing. Throwing something straight out of the maw of Malachai at them off the get is probably asking too much.

How about just having tiers for the bosses then? GGG likes tiers so they should eat that up. :P

At least that would limit the more dangerous bosses to higher content. Honestly tho, the early game needs some love and this might just be the ticket.

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Serleth wrote:

Throwing something straight out of the maw of Malachai at them off the get is probably asking too much.

Yeah, that's probably a recipe for them giving up and leaving the game entirely.

Another consideration is racing, which happens (outside of specific events like 1-months or contests) almost exclusively in Normal difficulty. Invasion bosses add a LOT of variability to clear times, which would be pretty frustrating for racers; just one invasion boss in the way can be all that it'd take for RNG to convert an amazing run into an abysmal one.

And to be certain, early in the game, invasion bosses are ANNOYING; this 1-month definitely reminded of that, that they can take forever to kill; as long as an act boss or longer; it REALLY interferes with the game's tempo.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Another consideration is racing, which happens (outside of specific events like 1-months or contests) almost exclusively in Normal difficulty. Invasion bosses add a LOT of variability to clear times, which would be pretty frustrating for racers; just one invasion boss in the way can be all that it'd take for RNG to convert an amazing run into an abysmal one.

And to be certain, early in the game, invasion bosses are ANNOYING; this 1-month definitely reminded of that, that they can take forever to kill; as long as an act boss or longer; it REALLY interferes with the game's tempo.

As far as racing and early game goes I don't see it adding much to the tempo, they are easily skipped as is the rest of the content that you skip while racing. Their presence early game also increases the chance of you getting usable gear much sooner.

Regarding what you said about RNG, that could happen easily now without the threat from invasion bosses. RNG can be a cruel mistress.

Invasion is my favorite of hardcore leagues (did not play Onslaught). Really brought challenge to the early- and mid-game progress. A lot more scary than annoying tempests.

Vaal Detonate Dead crab for the first time as melee was fun (still cool to see this mechanic in Flashback).
Mammothcage in Merveil's chambers was nice too. And many more.

Partially agree with tediousness of having them in each zone, but I think that the existing ones in new/common leagues should be made more varied, frequent and random - with about ghost-frequency would be fine and not tied to a specific zone.