Map Changes in 2.0.4

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xD4DDYx wrote:

You want end game, but you don't want to work for it?

Mmm... I want to work for a living and while I am not at work I like to PLAY games. ;x

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zalfargia wrote:

I run maps with 179IIQ/463IIR. If you invest 20-30 chaos and countless alts/augs into a map and find no decent maps or can't make back even the initial investment, you're at a pretty huge loss every 79+ maps you run.

4 chisels, 1 alch, anywhere from 1-10 chaos on rolling the map, then another 12c for ambush, then let's say you have a few unlucky maps where you don't find a map above level 75. You've just wasted a ton of currency. This happens to me and countless others all the time, where you spend a ton rolling the map and get nowhere near the cost of the map plus the initial investment back.

You're not at a loss, you're paying currency for experience. IIQ doesn't effect map drops by the way.

I don't understand why people complain about map investment. Probably for the same reason they complain about T1 uniques being expensive and the game being too difficult.

Careful guys, you all keep demanding a casual game and the Path of Exile that you've all come to love will no longer be Path of Exile.

quote edit:

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kcstar wrote:

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xD4DDYx wrote:

You want end game, but you don't want to work for it?

Mmm... I want to work for a living and while I am not at work I like to PLAY games. ;x

Two jobs, a wife and two kids - don't even go there.

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BoondockSaint wrote:

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xD4DDYx wrote:

There's a lot of confused people around here. Chris' statement about high level maps being run through Zana is meant to read; "People running high level maps with Zana mod."

The people here who still complain about map drops - please take this test:

Get any level map (highest level you have) throw 4-chisels on it, alc it and re-roll until you get "pack size" Now, put that into Zana map device with 3 SAC pieces and roll Zana's Ambush map mod. Grab 60+ alts, stack of Aug's and a couple of Transmutes and Scours. Enter map, roll "+3 Magic Monsters" on every box in the map and report back here with how many maps you return.

There is nothing wrong with map drop rates. Map drop rates for the higher tier are balanced around investment - just like everything else in this game. You want the best gear? Grind and invest. You want 8/8 challenges? Huge investment needed. Want to reach level 100? Invest your currency in maps.

Go on Poe.trade, buy a 79 Arsenal or Shipyard map and roll it as above. That will be the last map you will have to buy if you roll your maps as I mentioned above.


The experience nerf of the 82's is not punishing the elite players and everyone else. It's a proven fact that in a ladder situation, enthusiasm for the League is severely dampened the moment someone reaches that milestone. A goal that people need to have in ARPG is instantly devalued at that moment. This has a knoc-on effect for the community. People stop playing, people stop trading and the rest of us with different goals suffer because of a limited player base.

The longer it takes anyone to reach level 100 is best for retention of players on the whole. It makes the league last it's due course, which is great for... everyone? I think so.

Oh snap....the truth is out there now.....damn, now everyone will have thousands of maps lvl 81-82

First of all, even if you do roll map that way, there is 0 guarantee you will get any map in return, but it's ok, you are completly unexperienced so lets forget about that for a second


What people, atleast i, are whining is, that map drops are balanced exactly about what you said, and by balanced i mean you have small chance to keep your lvl 78-80 pool

And to do that you need 1 Ex in currency for lets say 2 maps to play them.....

Now tell me, how fucked up end game is where you need to farm/trade 1 whole day to play 3-4 maps that will give you some experience?

lol exactly. again why spend all your currancy to do a end game system. if that is so then it is flawed.

This is a free game to play. The money GGG makes comes from donations.

There is currently only 59 players at level 100.

Those 59 have probably donated a little to GGG.

Now... the thing is... Even if it takes twice as much time between level 99-100, those 59 would still be level 100.

How many others play this game? 100 k? 200 k? I dont have a clue! But I do know that those others provides alot more money.

So why not keep them happy!

your build and the hours you want to spend in this game should decide if you should hit level 100 or not.

Acces to maps should not decide that for you. Its silly that a map sells for 2 ex, many players especially the new ones will never see a stack of exalted orbs.

I want to point out that I am not angry =) I was the 10 th guy to hit level 100 this league and it wasnt even hard. I just went from allways playing solo with a build that was ok but not great into playing in a good party with a build that I have worked on for several leagues.

Build / Time invested / Trade <--- thats the 3 things you need for level 100, fail one of them and you wont succed.

Since maps dont drop as much as they should, you end up having to buy them, hence the trade part.

And I think thats wrong! The trade part should be about buying gear for your build or future builds.

Your build and your time invested in this game should be enough!

Forcing people into trading just to buy maps and not even provide a system for trading is a failure that makes players angry and annoyed. Not only do you need to learn this game without any guides or tutorials, you also need to figure out the economy of the game and then rely on third part websites. Not to mention that you have to figure out how those external sites works and how to find them.

Its so simple, just give people maps in a normal way. Also make it possible for a normal player to sustain the map pool.

Food on the table for GGG.. Because so many more would donate money and be happy about the game.

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xD4DDYx wrote:

I run maps with 179IIQ/463IIR. If you invest 20-30 chaos and countless alts/augs into a map and find no decent maps or can't make back even the initial investment, you're at a pretty huge loss every 79+ maps you run.

4 chisels, 1 alch, anywhere from 1-10 chaos on rolling the map, then another 12c for ambush, then let's say you have a few unlucky maps where you don't find a map above level 75. You've just wasted a ton of currency. This happens to me and countless others all the time, where you spend a ton rolling the map and get nowhere near the cost of the map plus the initial investment back.

You're not at a loss, you're paying currency for experience. IIQ doesn't effect map drops by the way.

I don't understand why people complain about map investment. Probably for the same reason they complain about T1 uniques being expensive and the game being too difficult.

Careful guys, you all keep demanding a casual game and the Path of Exile that you've all come to love will no longer be Path of Exile.

I know IIQ doesn't affect map drops, it's more for making back the initial investment with currency/uniques. Yeah XP is good and all, but I can't roll maps with XP.

I have 3200+ hours of playtime so I'm certainly not a casual. I'm merely saying it can be pretty discouraging to spend a whole ton rolling maps without getting the investment costs back.

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xD4DDYx wrote:

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kcstar wrote:

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xD4DDYx wrote:

You want end game, but you don't want to work for it?

Mmm... I want to work for a living and while I am not at work I like to PLAY games. ;x

Two jobs, a wife and two kids - don't even go there.

Still... I and certainly many other want to PLAY a game and don't work it.

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xD4DDYx wrote:

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zalfargia wrote:

I run maps with 179IIQ/463IIR. If you invest 20-30 chaos and countless alts/augs into a map and find no decent maps or can't make back even the initial investment, you're at a pretty huge loss every 79+ maps you run.

4 chisels, 1 alch, anywhere from 1-10 chaos on rolling the map, then another 12c for ambush, then let's say you have a few unlucky maps where you don't find a map above level 75. You've just wasted a ton of currency. This happens to me and countless others all the time, where you spend a ton rolling the map and get nowhere near the cost of the map plus the initial investment back.

You're not at a loss, you're paying currency for experience. IIQ doesn't effect map drops by the way.

I don't understand why people complain about map investment. Probably for the same reason they complain about T1 uniques being expensive and the game being too difficult.

Careful guys, you all keep demanding a casual game and the Path of Exile that you've all come to love will no longer be Path of Exile.

quote edit:

And this guy's right. But I think you're getting tripped up on that people are demanding a casual experience. It seems like what people want is a more intuitive experience, which may be similar, but not the same. The system that you outlined very much reeks of exploit to me rather than genuine challenge. I love POE for its challenge, but rolling strongboxes you put in there for the express purpose of finding a more challenging map is an excessively limiting system, and again here... it's really not that hard to do. Think Simon's Quest. Once you know to kneel near the body of water with the red crystal... you know it. It's not a challenge. Same thing is kinda happening here.

The part that seems blind in one eye to me is that more people reaching 100 doesn't need to be an inherently bad thing. In its current state... eh, maybe. I can see where you'd say that in any event, even if I don't agree. But the truth is, reaching level 100 quickly..It's only bad if you have nothing to do once you get to 100.

At the risk of speaking up for the community at large here, I think that the tier system and this stuff makes people mad because it doesn't actually touch on the real problem, and I personally have a problem with it because I see it as part of a larger movement towards homogenizing the endgame. To me, the chaotic nature of the endgame, how random it could be, how unpredictable, was what made it such a compelling little bit of genius in the first place, so a lot of what they're trying to change now was actually the strength of the system, not the weakness. Now, it's beginning to feel like... just a fourth difficulty, or something. Maybe we're thinking in the wrong direction. Maybe we need to leave maps alone and introduce a second endgame system, like an endless dungeon or something, that operates in a way different to maps.

Renaming "levels" to "tiers" is unnecessary, counter-intuitive, confusing and bothersome, even for totally new players. New players won't know the mob level/item level/overall difficulty in those maps, veteran players will just be vexed to transform the new "tier" system to the old "level" system they know and are comfortable with.

Brilliant.

I like this game. I've been playing since beta. I even supported it. But it pains me to see how the developers are taking the wrong direction to improve their game. The answer to top gamers rushing through your "hard" content like a breeze is not to try to slow them down (a little, be honest with yourselves) with map drop nerfs (brilliant idea, too), hidden xp penalties (the new players loving "tier" maps are gonna love this, too) and crippling the game experience in general.

Don't be threatened by those top tier individuals. Your game will be fine, it doesn't mean your game will be dead in months because a bunch of elite people reached max level and has nothing else to do. I am pretty sure that anyone playing to level 100 isn't leaving the game anytime soon, they'll take a *short* break, then start a new character with a new build they wanted to try, and start again from scratch.

This was concerning those top gamers... you know... the 1% of the playerbase or so.

Now for the rest of your dedicated fans who play this awesome game a reasonable number of hours/week. Read carefully:
- you are CRIPPLING our game experience for NO GOOD REASON.
- we want CHALLENGING CONTENT that feels REWARDING (note: BOTH challenging AND rewarding).
- we will get tired of our character before reaching level 100, but part of us secretly manages the idea of dinging 100, someday... you just BLEW that delusion (which, by the way, translates in more income for you, indirectly).
- what mostly kills the joy of playing this game is that its PAINFULLY HARD to find a party to run high tier maps, and even more disappointing that one of the members has to be a dedicated MFER or the drops won't even cover the currency expended to roll the maps.
- past level 85, this game turns out to be mostly SINGLEPLAYER... people like other people to tag with (yeah, yeah, there is always a lone wolf...) and have fun together. IMPROVE your LFG system and incentivize people to play in groups. Make it EVEN MORE REWARDING to play in a FULL PARTY.

Please dont remove map level from maps it will be very confusing for the players and what is the point of doing it anyway?When you enter the map i guess you will still be able to see the level or check the I.level of the items that drop there so what is the point again???