[2.2] A Storm of Ice and Fire - Avatar of Fire CI Whispering Ice - Uber Viable!

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Phate666 wrote:

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Baalorlord wrote:

[...]and most importantly means we get to double dip on cold and fire damage increases

Is this really true, because the wiki says otherwise:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_conversion

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Damage conversion is done before any increases, or multipliers are applied to damage guaranteeing that they are only applied once.

So either you or the wiki are wrong.

In these cases its always nice to test things out!



If I do not get bonuses for both %fire and %cold damage, then both of these jewels should provide approximately the same damage increase. (I get no benefit from damage over time modifiers - icestorm is not damage over time)

With neither jewel socketed my icestorm avg damage is listed as 5266.3.

If we add the viridian jewel, my damage increases to 5,364.3. I have gained 98 damage.

If we instead use the cobalt jewel, My damage becomes 5,477.4 I have gained 211.1 damage over base, or 113.1 damage over the viridian jewel.

I am definitely getting 14% increased damage from the viridian jewel and 30% increased damage from the cobalt jewel here, so I am most definitely benefitting from both cold % and fire % damage modifiers in full. The phrasing on the jewel is identical to the phrasing on snowforged also.

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Angrymobz wrote:

i wonder why ppl not realize that max intelligence is not the way to go with whispering ice. 1.1k-1.2k is way enough. i had the same dps on the skill with lvl 72 or 73 on my warbands witch, whith far less gear. (1 perandus, rainbowstride, astramentis and a couple str/dex to int jewels). espcially with reflect nearly gone it's even easier to go crit, as i did. many ppl seem to think that they need to try desperatly to match firestorms dps with the skill but dont remember that u actually still wanna clear fast in this game aswell. good job anyways keep up.

Int is not the best way to increase damage alone for this character - this I readily admit! Building for crit you should be able to easily achieve higher listed damage than I have.

However, the reason we stack int so much is that we ALSO get defense for our investment, 1% increased maximum energy shield per 5 intelligence. Can't say no to the mana either, mana is tight on this build.

Why don't you get amplify for clear speed? AoE is love, AoE is life. I can see not getting blast radius because it costs an extra point and has 4% less AoE than amplify.

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RedxFrost wrote:

Why don't you get amplify for clear speed? AoE is love, AoE is life. I can see not getting blast radius because it costs an extra point and has 4% less AoE than amplify.

Firestorm and Icestorm have a unique interaction with increased area effect size. More AoE increases both the size of each individual blast as well as the size of the area over which they fall. Ultimately this results in similar coverage over a larger area - less density of hits, to put it simply. Against single, tough creatures like rare monsters and bosses, this is a bad thing! We will hit them with less hits per storm and do less overall DPS to single targets. AoE on other skills does not have this drawback.

If you look at firestorm build guides you will see that most do not recommend AoE size for this reason. If you check my wasteland video you will see that the spell's default AoE (without conc effect) is more than adequate for mapping.

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This is the build that I am using on HC right now; http://poeurl.com/zvaEUOh

I was reading some of your posts earlier and it looks like you have done the math on the damage scaling for the different nodes. Such as int, cold, elemental damage. Are you saying that taking that there is better options then "heart of ice" and "celestial judgement"? Is a +10 int node more DPS then a +8% cold or elemental damage node?

Its a little difficult to equate intelligence to %increased damage, because our damage is actually affected by our intelligence in three ways(!).

Each 100 int provides:
10-30 base damage
10% increased spell damage
+0.35 second duration on Icestorm

What this means for us ultimately is that each point of intelligence adds more damage than the last because we are exponentially scaling our damage as we add base damage and increase our multiplier and increase our duration, allowing us to stack more icestorms on top of one another.

At my current level of int (1580) a 10 int node is roughly equivalent to an 8% damage node, ignoring the duration effect. What makes them better is that we also get energy shield, mana, and icestorm duration out of the deal.

Celestial Judgement is a great node, but the elemental damage nodes we take to get to it are pretty useless. You'll note I try to avoid as many such minor nodes on the tree as possible - I take the long way around to elemental dominion and elementalist.

Hey dude, nice guide, made me make the switch from cold whispering ice to this avatr of fire version.

I can't shatter enemies anymore since I got AoF, is that because of "You deal no non-fire damage" ?

This is my gear at the moment, I know it's not great but I can't replace the garb cuz I have a lot of mana issues if I do, how do you deal with mana anyways? Im running discipline, herald of ice and arctic armour too.

I'm a witch and I only have 8.6k ES atm, will get 1 more vaal discipline when I stop being lazy haha.




Have you tried carcass jack with this build? I'm afraid the ES will be extremely low, so I haven't tried it myself..

Thanks!

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Ishamz wrote:

Hey dude, nice guide, made me make the switch from cold whispering ice to this avatr of fire version.

I can't shatter enemies anymore since I got AoF, is that because of "You deal no non-fire damage" ?

This is my gear at the moment, I know it's not great but I can't replace the garb cuz I have a lot of mana issues if I do, how do you deal with mana anyways? Im running discipline, herald of ice and arctic armour too.

I'm a witch and I only have 8.6k ES atm, will get 1 more vaal discipline when I stop being lazy haha.

Have you tried carcass jack with this build? I'm afraid the ES will be extremely low, so I haven't tried it myself..

Thanks!

Yes, you will never freeze or shatter enemies with Avatar of Fire - we deal only fire damage! I only use herald of ice for the added base cold damage.

Mana for me is mostly solved by the Perandus Signets, without them mana is a severe issue.

Carcass Jack does not have nearly enough ES to be worth considering, IMO.

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Baalorlord wrote:

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Ishamz wrote:

Hey dude, nice guide, made me make the switch from cold whispering ice to this avatr of fire version.

I can't shatter enemies anymore since I got AoF, is that because of "You deal no non-fire damage" ?

This is my gear at the moment, I know it's not great but I can't replace the garb cuz I have a lot of mana issues if I do, how do you deal with mana anyways? Im running discipline, herald of ice and arctic armour too.

I'm a witch and I only have 8.6k ES atm, will get 1 more vaal discipline when I stop being lazy haha.

Have you tried carcass jack with this build? I'm afraid the ES will be extremely low, so I haven't tried it myself..

Thanks!

Yes, you will never freeze or shatter enemies with Avatar of Fire - we deal only fire damage! I only use herald of ice for the added base cold damage.

Mana for me is mostly solved by the Perandus Signets, without them mana is a severe issue.

Carcass Jack does not have nearly enough ES to be worth considering, IMO.

Ohh right i forgot you have those 2, sick regen..

Any gear I should upgrade? Other than the boots, lol, can't find anything good on poetrade for less than 1 ex..

Cool build for freeze immune bosses, and nice "trick" for getting awesome jewels cheap (I suspect). I really like the Scion start for Unwavering Stance.

The defenses look a bit low to me even with all this awesome gear for generic high level mapping though.

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Zed_ wrote:

Cool build for freeze immune bosses, and nice "trick" for getting awesome jewels cheap (I suspect). I really like the Scion start for Unwavering Stance.

The defenses look a bit low to me even with all this awesome gear for generic high level mapping though.

The most expensive of the jewels was 15 chaos! Though I expect people are starting to realize their value now.