Best support gems for spectres in a 5L?

HI

ATM i have

Spetre
increased crit strike
min dmg
min life
added fire dmg


Is this good, or should I change some

Any feedback welcome

Turnip

It would help to know what spectres you use.
Also, I don't think inc crit strikes is important at all unless some special build.

Maybe I should be cautious about posting in summoner threads since I havn't played one in 2.0, but anyways...

It depends a lot on the spectre. For example, evangelits cast spells. I like to link them with echo-faster cast-minion damage-added fire (there spell is physical). This makes quite an aoe dps source. This setup would not work on tenticle miscreations who have a projectile attack.

It indeed depends entirely on the base you use. please tell us your base

but ill give you some good rules of thumb.

1 minions have a base crit chance of 5%. Minions do not get any items or passives to increase this. so that increased critical strikes gem , or indeed any crit gem is quite wasted on minions . it simply is not even remotely efficient.


2 specters specifically do not scale off of attack speed at all. unlike skeletons , zombies and srs (which have ai designed to hit as often as they can)

specters have mob ai. which are designed to give a fair experience to the player. in short their ai is purpose built to be handicapped they wont ever attack as often as they potentially can.


despite this spell echo is still a great gem to use on spell caster minions because it forces them to attack twice bypassing their ai. the increased cast speed you get while leveing echo is worthless. but you should level it anyway to get it to quality 20 for the 10% increased damage which is basically a free minion damage passive.

if it is an elemental attack, it is a good chance your specter is a spell caster
if it is a physical projectile attack , chances are it is a physical attack and scale with projectile skills



For defensive gems, it really depends on the level of investment you have on the tree. if you have around 100% increased minion life on the tree,. then you do not need a minion life gem and are better off going full damage.

if you have a method of capping your minions resistances (it is easier to assume specters have a base 25% all resists) you can use passive to boost this and the purity aura.

if you do not wish to use any of those things.. well then you probably should not be using specters for damage anyway as they will die alot. dont ever use the minion resitance gem on specters. that is just a waste.

My spectres die a lot. So I res them from what ever map I'm on. oO there's a large spectrum - i try for spell casters but can't always manage it. Which makes support gems harder to decide on. I'm happy if I have an evangelist. but they do die - I certainly wouldn't go spectre hunting which I think is just a mad waste of time.

Thanks for your feedback.

I'll try spell echo, but that's wasted on melee spectres and projectiles supports are wasted on melee and maybe spell casting. It's hard to choose supports.

Thanks for the crit advice - I'll remove that gem.

I have a lvled spell echo so I'll use that.

I have all minion life nodes AND minion life and they still die a lot - my Zombies have monte's grasp so they never die, but I have a hard time keeping spectres alive.

Do projectile supports increase spell damage?

Thx

If you use evangelists then Increased Duration and concentrated effort prior to 2.0. The last support shrinks the bubble as I've been told. I mainly used raise specter, echo, minion damage, increased duration, added fire, fire penetration. In 6l armor chest which the best I could get was 3 blue sockets... Then used Hatred aura as the spell does phys damage, which also helped the zombies..... that was 1.3.

People use desecrate to call up Evan in the Waypoint for Dom. Use the corpse targeting to raise zombies to remove bodies and raise up specters.


Projectile supports will increase damage if they apply... GMP/LMP, faster projectiles.. should but depending on the projectile ...

"

Turniphead2 wrote:

My spectres die a lot. So I res them from what ever map I'm on. oO there's a large spectrum - i try for spell casters but can't always manage it. Which makes support gems harder to decide on. I'm happy if I have an evangelist. but they do die - I certainly wouldn't go spectre hunting which I think is just a mad waste of time.

Thanks for your feedback.

I'll try spell echo, but that's wasted on melee spectres and projectiles supports are wasted on melee and maybe spell casting. It's hard to choose supports.

Thanks for the crit advice - I'll remove that gem.

I have a lvled spell echo so I'll use that.

I have all minion life nodes AND minion life and they still die a lot - my Zombies have monte's grasp so they never die, but I have a hard time keeping spectres alive.

Do projectile supports increase spell damage?

Thx

sounds to me like you did not cap their resistances then. if that is the case no amount of life will keep them alive and your build probably is going to have a very difficult time using specters.

resing any old specters is kind of fine in the basic sense of the concept but it makes leveling gems or building a specialized play style around them almost impossible and the most powerful specter builds are built around one type of specter.


the big reason why your zombies do not die is less about the life they have and more the fact that montre gives them extra resistances combined with their higher base resists means the zombies are capped.



This is mostly why i tend to call montreguls out as a noob trap because it lures players into very bad habits when using minions.

Having one minion type exceedingly more durable than all your other minions usually means you will try to do things that are WAY out of the depth of your more squishy minions.

in that case it is far more dependable to make all your minions equally durable. either they all make it or they all die. it sounds kind of risky but in practice it communicates exactly what the limits of your minions are to you far better ( through your zombies) so that you can avoid losing the much more valuable specters.


I would firmly suggest investing in either a few minion jewels with minion resists on then AND /OR running a purity of elements aura with atleast 36% aura effectiveness. this will put all of your minion resists pretty close to the cap and improve durability enough that you wont need to dick around with raising bad specters in maps.


If you need further explanations feel free to pm me and ill be happily to walk through the concept in game. (when i get home from work in a good while)

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

2 specters specifically do not scale off of attack speed at all. unlike skeletons , zombies and srs (which have ai designed to hit as often as they can)

specters have mob ai. which are designed to give a fair experience to the player. in short their ai is purpose built to be handicapped they wont ever attack as often as they potentially can.

I don't entirely agree with this salty. You are certainly not wrong about their ai and that they don't attack as much as you want. But, i don't think that means speed mods are completly wasted on all spectres. Don't want to detract to much from your post though. All great info.

I actually misremembered my eva gen setup. It was conc rather than FC so I must have agreed with you a bit. Im thinking more on sentinals or tittys (prob not the most popular these days). Attack/cast may not be one of the best options but it seems to me it would be a dps increase regardless of min/maxing.

"

BackwoodsS wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

2 specters specifically do not scale off of attack speed at all. unlike skeletons , zombies and srs (which have ai designed to hit as often as they can)

specters have mob ai. which are designed to give a fair experience to the player. in short their ai is purpose built to be handicapped they wont ever attack as often as they potentially can.

I don't entirely agree with this salty. You are certainly not wrong about their ai and that they don't attack as much as you want. But, i don't think that means speed mods are completly wasted on all spectres. Don't want to detract to much from your post though. All great info.

I actually misremembered my eva gen setup. It was conc rather than FC so I must have agreed with you a bit. Im thinking more on sentinals or tittys (prob not the most popular these days). Attack/cast may not be one of the best options but it seems to me it would be a dps increase regardless of min/maxing.

it is quite easy to show that is how it works , since many summoners tend to run both vaal haste and flesh offering.

the largest impact i have seen from cast/ attack speed is a shorter time between individual hits of an echo / multi strike chain.

so for echo the second cast comes a little faster or the 2nd and 3rd hit take less time to execute.

but in terms of the actual attacks most of time what happens is a specter will attack. move for a set amount of time , and then attack again. or they attack in bursts pause and then attack again. You could argue that increasing attack speed will improve the amount of casts/ attack per burst but in practice i almost never see a difference.

Saying attack /cast speed has no effect is not entirely accurate true . but it has the least impact at-least that is what my experience tells me.

"

Ragaroon wrote:

If you use evangelists then Increased Duration and concentrated effort prior to 2.0. The last support shrinks the bubble as I've been told. I mainly used raise specter, echo, minion damage, increased duration, added fire, fire penetration. In 6l armor chest which the best I could get was 3 blue sockets... Then used Hatred aura as the spell does phys damage, which also helped the zombies..... that was 1.3.

People use desecrate to call up Evan in the Waypoint for Dom. Use the corpse targeting to raise zombies to remove bodies and raise up specters.


Projectile supports will increase damage if they apply... GMP/LMP, faster projectiles.. should but depending on the projectile ...

That's a useful tip - thx - ill try it.

Tho IMO Chaos chuckers do more dmg.

Great tip tho