[Curse Immune] should become [Decreased Curse Effect]

All immunity's fail. They are a brick-wall for build diversity.

There shouldn't be a single modifier in the map system that completely shuts out a dedicated build. It should always reduce the efficiency of them, but never completely render them useless.

Cannot be stun, is another one of those modifiers that's just poorly designed. They need a modifier that's the reversed of "stun threshold reduction" but not a full immunity.

I despise the implementation of atziri for this one reason and fought quite a forum war when it was implemented at the time. To no avail sadly.

So +1

Peace,

-Boem-

Thanks for the support everyone! Many solid arguments made!

@Boem:
That's a great point about Cannot be Stunned and any other such immunities. The melee tree has changed quite a bit since then. Many stun-related passives were added, making stun builds quite viable... unless against Cannot be Stunned.

I've suggested multiple options in the past:
1 - Can be affected by 1 less curse (counteracted by items/nodes that allow 1 more curse), and thus making sure a build focused on Curses is still valid.
2 - Curse lasts X% less.
3 - Curse has Y% less effect.
4 - Monsters that gain buffs while Cursed (like "Fast while Cursed", "Resistant while Cursed", "Evasive while Cursed")

Anything but immunity.

"

Nurvus wrote:

I've suggested multiple options in the past:
1 - Can be affected by 1 less curse (counteracted by items/nodes that allow 1 more curse).
2 - Curse lasts X% less.
3 - Curse has Y% less effect.

Anything but immunity.

Your design on point 1 is pretty bad ("immunity unless immunity breaking keystone/item") but otherwise yes, there are at least two good options here.

As someone who mains a stunner... It's kinda bad that "enemies cannot be stunned" is free quantity to 99% of everyone else, but a re-roll mod for them. (who normally just takes every other mod in combo... Temp chains + double reflect + exposure? No problem)

If GGG wanted to be fair with keeping this, they should introduce mods like "Enemies cannot be frozen," (few use stun because freezing just does the job more easily with less investment) or even "enemies cannot be critically hit," as that would ALSO wall off a small portion of possible build diversity... Just that people would FEEL it because that small section is just THAT much more popular.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Your design on point 1 is pretty bad ("immunity unless immunity breaking keystone/item") but otherwise yes, there are at least two good options here.

To be honest, it's more akin to many other effects; reflect is often a "big pain unless you build leech," for instance.

So again, it's more important to step back and not look at the means, but rather the end in gameplay: a GOOD mod doesn't brick-wall-off content to any viable builds in a sort of "fuck you in particular" sense, but rather, causes some degree of challenge for everyone. For a non-curse-based-build, curse immunity is a MILD hiccup at worst, and free quantity at best. This transitions it to basically the same thing as before; a manageable-but-interesting effect, but removes the "brick wall" to curse-based builds.

It's also a bit akin to the "Cannot regenerate life/mana" which is overcome by simply having non-regenerative methods of recovery. In this case as well, a seeming "100% wall" mod is still a good one because there are clear and available methods for EVERY build to either overcome it, or dodge around it.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Nurvus wrote:

I've suggested multiple options in the past:
1 - Can be affected by 1 less curse (counteracted by items/nodes that allow 1 more curse).
2 - Curse lasts X% less.
3 - Curse has Y% less effect.

Anything but immunity.

Your design on point 1 is pretty bad ("immunity unless immunity breaking keystone/item") but otherwise yes, there are at least two good options here.

Except that then the immunity would only apply to builds that does not rely on curses, hence not being a brick wall.

[1 Less Curse] is a neat idea, and it could certainly be implemented by changing to a tag-type system for multi-cursers. This change would allow another idea that's floated around on the forums to be implemented as well: Other players using a curse will not replace all curses, only the oldest, so a Curse build isn't completely losing all of their curses when party members use their own single curse.

However, in comparison to [Reduced Curse Effect], it will only help curse builds. The language used to communicate this effect is apt to be confusing to players. [Reduced Curse Effect] plugs into existing language, and bosses already use it too. All builds would still get some benefit out of their curses, so their play-style wouldn't be invalidated just because they don't stack curses.

[Reduced Curse Duration] is rather weak and adds annoyance to manual curses for no real gain. On-Kill effects would be unaffected as well, so the balance of this would be uneven across curse types.

My vote goes to [Reduced Curse Effect] as the ideal implementation.

The [of Congealment] map mod has been added to the pool in patch 2.0.1b. This gives monsters Life and Mana Leech immunity.

It's only on higher tier maps and rarer than most? So what? GGG, please stop adding new types of monster immunity and dial the playability binary down to a manageable [Reduced Effectiveness] paradigm.