[ HLD ] Needed fixes to achieve proper balance for S3

Remote mine's damage need's to be toned down in pvp, a lot of skills combined with crit and remote will 1 shot most builds, of course counterable but 1 shots should not happen anyway. It adds 50% more dmg ( double damage and instant remoting of the skill ).

Molten shell needs a damage reduction, maybe make it so it cannot crit in pvp, already does a lot of flat damage and crit is really not needed, crit is the reason molten shell 1 shots.

Tempest shield, procs too much uppon block and especially when blocking LMP spells or multiple hits per seconds. I suggest a % chance for it to proc on block or straight up removing any crit from it, paired with crit in a 4l the lightning damage dealt can reach high enough amounts to do too high damage.

Reduce the effectiveness of chaos damage into pvp, its very hard to stack and cap, added chaos damage gem can be used in many situations and again paired with crit the damage can be insane considering the average chaos res is 0%-15% for most players at all times, ofc pure chaos gear can be equipped but that's very unpractical. In some situations i even saw people with under -40..

Explosive arrow, lower the damage when exploding on walls and buffing dmg when shot on the player ?, i really dont know how hard it is to make it have this mechanic but definatly a damage reduction from wall stack.

Puncture traps crit with a bow can 1 shot a lot of builds currently, it's compared to remote mines, perhaps a nerf to point blank would help a lot, not as imminent as remote mines because you cant make the traps cast but still 1 shot capable.

Puncture crit degen, far too high damage and easily reaches 1 shot degen mechanic uppon critting, a bleed tone down paired to a crit reduction would fix a lot of this.

Frost wall 6l with auras/added dmg gems, this can be abused a lot vs ranged builds and it pretty much hard counters them 100%, frost wall is suposed to be a practical skill to either use in a cwdt settup to proc a wall to block projectiles or knockback/block an opponent. I dont think in no way frost wall should be able to do damage in PVP paired with crit because it is far too easy to aim and cast and it does do pretty high damage, addon gems scale a lot with it for some reasons. Making frostwall have no critical chance in pvp would pretty much solve 80% of the issue.

Reduce the damage effectiveness of critical in pvp, this has to be done i dont know in which way but it would solve a lot of current 1 shot issues.

Reduce the effectiveness of chill in pvp, it has become a meta to slow down everything by 30% with something as easy as cold damage, it has become way too easy to proc nowadays with pretty much any build or simply an arctic breath cwdt setup. Chill % slow needs to be reduced for pvp in other to balance it out and remove the must have meta.

if everything get's fixed correctly i can see multiple fast attack speed/castspeed skills become dominant and in order to balance the meta out any skill with very high speed needs to be toned down in damage effectiveness %. Let's take the exemple of cyclone/barrage or really any skill that has very high speed, and it's currently known that cyclone is still too strong in damage when it comes to LLD as well. i'm targeting cyclone and barrage here because they are both the highest attack speed per second skill for a melee/ranged attacker. When it comes to spell i think they will be balanced if crit effectiveness is reduced and there will be no need to touch high cast speed ones as i cant really see them become a meta.


Add more maps, more wide open maps so people have more space to work and outplay the opponent considering it is far more faster paced. Fights end up way too quickly when matched in a tiny map, it can become annoying to have almost no ground space to fight.

People think by nerfing crit degen builds will be dominant but i can confirm that this is wrong by easily and affirmly saying that in order to achieve any real competitive degen 1 shot close mechanic you need crit and and base flat degen is easily countered by res and flasks.

Poison arrow, very easy to achieve high damage and is currenty the cheapo mid-tier-low-tier destroy build since no one has chaos resist there and i think it really needs a chaos per second dot reduction for pvp. It scales well with levels and can become devasting against anyone who cant afford chaos resist because believe it or not it is a luxury on most items and in a lot of cases they will choose base resist mod. Poison arrow becomes worst in competive play because players will bring chaos gear or regen builds, chaos flasks and including proper cloud kiting.

A lot of those fixes would promote build diversity and possibilty a lot more hybrid builds, i'm currently running both hybrid builds in LLD and HLD, being able to vary your skill list use is very cool and keeps you away from getting bored too fast. I'm sure we would even see unused skills being used more than before.

Probably missed out a few points but i brought out some.

PA is in normal balance now, U NEED TO UP UR CHAOS RES, this is not PVE , itemisation is not a balance problem. But, i agreed with most of ur post and can add some.
1. i think its need to be lowered.
2.Look at 2 same gems , spell ecco need to be 20% less (not 10) this is add for ur post about meta cast speed.

yeah pen is op etc but I don't know how they can change it for pvp and not mess it up for pve. And simply changing the gems for both is not an good option if one at all.

The only viable changes can be in relation to the damage scaling formulas, the % effectiveness of skills and the T times of certain skills or the support T times if they have an override.

So explosive arrow would have to take a damage nerf as a whole and that includes damage from walls and arrows that stick to the players. Mines can just get a changed T time. Penetration gems can possible add some 0.x sec to the T time of a skill to decrease the damage?





as for chaos damage
I don't think that its that hard to get high chaos resists to be honest. You can get 61% chaos resist just from that item. There are also more expensive alternatives like ming's heart(?) or just 1-2 item swaps with chaos res. It's not like most chaos heavy builds have any other significant damage outputs and if you limit their main damage they become mostly useless.

Arcic breath does insane shotgun damage, causes high chill duration and can freeze. Should be tuned down too

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Jedi_blr wrote:

PA is in normal balance now, U NEED TO UP UR CHAOS RES, this is not PVE , itemisation is not a balance problem. But, i agreed with most of ur post and can add some.
1.

i think its need to be lowered.
2.Look at 2 same gems

, spell ecco need to be 20% less (not 10) this is add for ur post about meta cast speed.

From my perspective by playing a caster reducing crit effectiveness would already solve a lot of the damage issue, quite a few elemental skills need penetration in order to deliver damage, if you take a look at the flat damage non crit of spells they are pretty stable at the moment. Take for exemple skills that cant rely on crit, incinerate, lightning tendrils, ice nova, shock nova and many other skills, nerfing penetration would possibility destroy any non crit spell or elemental attack in general. I disagree with spell echo having 20% reduction, this just sounds over the notch to be honest and would simply destroy casters in everyway with all the toning down u suggested paired to a crit reducion. You cant reduce damage effectiveness of elemental by too much if you want them to stay competitive, physical is unmitigated unless you use immortal call, elemental is mitigated by resists and i really dont think anything besides crit need to be toned down reguarding those for now, flat elemental damage is on a stable zone and crit is where the problem is for the most part.

You compared echo and multistrike and they look fine to me, multistrike has 88% more melee attack speed with 36% reduction too physical damage which is understandable since physical is unmitigated. Spell echo has 10% less damage and only 50% more cast speed, elemental is mitigated and i would simply just use faster casting if it were to have such a high damage reduction like you suggested ( 20% ), it would simply make no sense to keep using it with such a drawback. Keep in mind that when aiming fireball with echo for exemple you are locked shooting the projectiles twice in the same direction without having the possibility to aim another way, there is some drawbacks already.

As for chaos damage i agree that there are items available to get chaos resists but in most cases they are unpractical and nobody would want to equip those in 3v3s for exemple.

That was my opinion on gems only(i cant say 20% is good or not and how bad is to lower pen gems), but may be alpha team or balance team take a look at this, may be tuning of this gems can solve some balance problems. All steps in pvp balance need deep test IMHO.
P.S.Sry for my english.

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Tommie_Sjukskriven wrote:

Arcic breath does insane shotgun damage, causes high chill duration and can freeze. Should be tuned down too

Is it joke? Cos i dont see Arctic Br pure caster at all. Is it something new?

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Jedi_blr wrote:

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Tommie_Sjukskriven wrote:

Arcic breath does insane shotgun damage, causes high chill duration and can freeze. Should be tuned down too

Is it joke? Cos i dont see Arctic Br pure caster at all. Is it something new?

lol it does hugh damage

Spot on Hauntworld, GGG take notice plz.


I love the fact that there is one recurent famous rmt player who abuse most of this in the sarn arena.

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IceDeal wrote:

Spot on Hauntworld, GGG take notice plz.


I love the fact that there is one recurent famous rmt player who abuse most of this in the sarn arena.

Obey! Almighty Ivan! Luckily he sucks, sadly ggg dont baneven with proofs