Why is there no "Greendude" for races?

"

lPeeps wrote:

while there is the option, but in this sig anyway, you absolutely 100% cannot get that node, and expect to get a record. and then for resist rings, you mule shadow and i dont believe you get a red gem from mud flats so there is no way to get a fire ring, cept ve

Lets take this sig for example. If you actually go for the 20 dex node on templar, you almost certainly will not be getting a record, unless ur rng is super godly. Like 3 Magic packs boxes and stuffs, you are delaying the important nodes when you would get them normally which is right at the bosses.

For templar I was thinking the +10 dex node (northeast of Retribution) on the way to the witch tree.

"

lPeeps wrote:

Why not make a recipe like green gem + trans = jade? something like that.

I like this.

"

lPeeps wrote:

while there is the option, but in this sig anyway, you absolutely 100% cannot get that node, and expect to get a record. and then for resist rings, you mule shadow and i dont believe you get a red gem from mud flats so there is no way to get a fire ring, cept ve

Lets take this sig for example. If you actually go for the 20 dex node on templar, you almost certainly will not be getting a record, unless ur rng is super godly.

so the basis for your argument is that every run needs to have the ability and resources available to set a record every single time?

-HeaT

"

HeaT1 wrote:

"

lPeeps wrote:

while there is the option, but in this sig anyway, you absolutely 100% cannot get that node, and expect to get a record. and then for resist rings, you mule shadow and i dont believe you get a red gem from mud flats so there is no way to get a fire ring, cept ve

Lets take this sig for example. If you actually go for the 20 dex node on templar, you almost certainly will not be getting a record, unless ur rng is super godly.

so the basis for your argument is that every run needs to have the ability and resources available to set a record every single time?

-HeaT

yes

XoXo ZoRoXo

"

HeaT1 wrote:

"

lPeeps wrote:

while there is the option, but in this sig anyway, you absolutely 100% cannot get that node, and expect to get a record. and then for resist rings, you mule shadow and i dont believe you get a red gem from mud flats so there is no way to get a fire ring, cept ve

Lets take this sig for example. If you actually go for the 20 dex node on templar, you almost certainly will not be getting a record, unless ur rng is super godly.

so the basis for your argument is that every run needs to have the ability and resources available to set a record every single time?

-HeaT

The basis for my argument is that your run should not be completely destroyed if you dont get a jade amulet in your vendor. There should be either static ones in the shop or an obtainable recipe early.
Shit like ms boots you can actually actively do stuff in the game to increase your chances, keeping early boots to transmute, while selling all blues to get extra transmutes ect.

In much the same way that the gem balance in the game is not set up to work in PVP.

PvP has its own gem ruleset.

The way typical vendors works is not set up to work in a race environment.

Racing has its own vendor rules\rule sets.

??

Profit.


I'd argue that better vendors benefits everyone in the game as a whole, but I understand why it would have to be a special ruleset for racing.

I thought i'd mention a few things since I am in the thread title afterall. Below is a quote from me explaining myself in a pvp thread.

---

"I give them feedback just like all of you. In fact, i put a signficiant time into analyzing and evaluating the meta and creating extensive and researched feedback, often times in the form of a long google document. I've made tier lists of builds alongside a group of other experienced players on mumble. I always insist on having conversations via microphone with them and we work together to make this list.

Another thing I've been doing is suggestions for nerf/buffs mid seasons. And again I've only done this with the help of other community members. Grindcore, Monstercookie and midwest helped me with the previous version (between season 1 & 2) and have been great help. Lordsidro also helped with the first document before pvp events started. We have debates and disagreements, all suggestions go through some filtering by multiple point of views.

When we finish it, we ask GGG to look at it. And that's all.

Do they value the feedback? Yes, they know it was submitted by multiple players who worked hard on it. Does it influence their decisions, sometimes. At the end of the day, it's their decisions. The point is; the kind of feedback we submit, that i've just described, is feedback that anyone can make. Anyone in the pvp community could of taken this initiative and created a document with the help of a group of pvpers.

Also, a lot of the suggestions we make do not go in. No one without exception has any concrete power over any pvp related decisions except GGG themselves. No matter how vocal you are, you can't force anything through, myself included.

If you make a post in reply to GGG when they ask for feedback, or if you make a topic in the pvp feedback section or if you email them, they will read it."

---

This was just to give a bit of perspective on what i'm doing, just to help the conversation (as to not create any confusion). Continue on.

"

GreenDude wrote:

Spoiler

I thought i'd mention a few things since I am in the thread title afterall. Below is a quote from me explaining myself in a pvp thread.

---

"I give them feedback just like all of you. In fact, i put a signficiant time into analyzing and evaluating the meta and creating extensive and researched feedback, often times in the form of a long google document. I've made tier lists of builds alongside a group of other experienced players on mumble. I always insist on having conversations via microphone with them and we work together to make this list.

Another thing I've been doing is suggestions for nerf/buffs mid seasons. And again I've only done this with the help of other community members. Grindcore, Monstercookie and midwest helped me with the previous version (between season 1 & 2) and have been great help. Lordsidro also helped with the first document before pvp events started. We have debates and disagreements, all suggestions go through some filtering by multiple point of views.

When we finish it, we ask GGG to look at it. And that's all.

Do they value the feedback? Yes, they know it was submitted by multiple players who worked hard on it. Does it influence their decisions, sometimes. At the end of the day, it's their decisions. The point is; the kind of feedback we submit, that i've just described, is feedback that anyone can make. Anyone in the pvp community could of taken this initiative and created a document with the help of a group of pvpers.

Also, a lot of the suggestions we make do not go in. No one without exception has any concrete power over any pvp related decisions except GGG themselves. No matter how vocal you are, you can't force anything through, myself included.

If you make a post in reply to GGG when they ask for feedback, or if you make a topic in the pvp feedback section or if you email them, they will read it."

---

This was just to give a bit of perspective on what i'm doing, just to help the conversation (as to not create any confusion). Continue on.

So are you saying if we take some top racers (people who have been doing it from the beginning, who have been through the thick and thin, who've evolved through all the metas, who've one demis, who've gone into invitationals, who've received 1000 pt prizes, people who GENUINELY know what they are talking about) we'll get a dev response?

Sounds fair. So why have some things been complained about for so long and haven't been fixed? For example, virtually all top racers (by top racers, people like Throzz, Helman, lPeeps, Fraggy, cwu, Mors, and countless others) agree that descent leveling is messed up, and that levels need to be scaled down. And according to some, this problem has persisted for MONTHS! Other things, like the influence of RNG on races, the state of races such as bursts (vanilla, descent, and ledges) all have issues that most top racers would agree upon, as well as the racing schedule and race variety/cycling across seasons.

GGG reads. They hear. Then they don't do anything.

What do I propose?

> A document with commentary on everything that wants to be changed be created and signed off by top racers (even Qarl refers to them as such, so I hope no one gets caught up in the technical meaning of that term). Then we PM that to GGG and hotfix is deployed, and BAM! Descent is fixed, bursts are removed, sigs aren't boring, and the schedule is fixed. GG.

>GreenDude starts racing. GreenDude is the exalted feedback member of the community and currently posses over 900000 armor. As thus, anything he says is taken seriously by devs.

>Mors becomes the resident GreenDude for racing. ResidentGreenDudeZ is what we now call Mors.

Some communication from ggg would be a start
"since we intended to launch act 4 in april but that shit's not going to happen, don't expect any race content for a while or anything new for that matter lol"

Part of the issue I feel is that there has been very little to no communication about racing since the start, so that left us with a feeling where providing feedback is useless. Which in turn is probably a vicious circle (snake biting its own tail ?) where devs don't want to get involved with a childish community. What drew me to this game was the open dialogue from ggg about the game, but this hasn't been happening for races.

This forum could have been different, with a direction where ggg_dan could have created a thread dedicated to each type of races where we would provide feedback/suggestions, but without any supervision you just get the same old dumb spam from racers, because dank memes.

One thing that's probably been asked since the launch of act 3 is a way to start a race in act 2/act 3. With pvp, they've provided premade characters with fixed gem/gear setup, and from my end it doesn't seem impossible to adapt that idea to pve and avoid any issue by making that league end in the void. Now a simple "we can't afford the ressources to do that now/the amount of work behind it would be tremendous and we don't have the manpower to realize it" would feel better than silence.
Another would be to use the normalisation they've applied to endgame map layouts and adapt it to descent level generation to avoid what's been happening this season, because playing underleveled is a pretty bad feeling.

Considering the way they worked with players in alpha for pvp, I don't see why the same couldn't be happening to better races, especially considering the difference in accessibility.

About a Greendude for races:
I might be mistaken, because that part of the game never interested me, I've been clear that if I want to be competitive I'll go play a game on even grounds, but the involvement/autonomy from pvpers is what made him stand. Organized tournaments, a website, specific sets of rules, there's nothing like this that's been done by the racing community. If you happen to open a racing thread where a duelist has won, you're welcomed by several minutes of commercials or donation begging if you have adblock: I doubt that kind of attitude is something that ggg wants to be involved with.

"

Pam wrote:

because dank memes.

With Hilbert gone, those memes are the only thing we have left :^(

I guess it's understandable that they don't bother making any changes to racing seeing as although it could be improved, it's currently working fine. Remove some long races, and outside of descent champions and endless ledge, it's still as popular as ever. So obviously it would be a very low priority.

Hopefully after act4 is released they will take time to make some big race changes.

"

CabooseDog wrote:

"

GreenDude wrote:

Spoiler

I thought i'd mention a few things since I am in the thread title afterall. Below is a quote from me explaining myself in a pvp thread.

---

"I give them feedback just like all of you. In fact, i put a signficiant time into analyzing and evaluating the meta and creating extensive and researched feedback, often times in the form of a long google document. I've made tier lists of builds alongside a group of other experienced players on mumble. I always insist on having conversations via microphone with them and we work together to make this list.

Another thing I've been doing is suggestions for nerf/buffs mid seasons. And again I've only done this with the help of other community members. Grindcore, Monstercookie and midwest helped me with the previous version (between season 1 & 2) and have been great help. Lordsidro also helped with the first document before pvp events started. We have debates and disagreements, all suggestions go through some filtering by multiple point of views.

When we finish it, we ask GGG to look at it. And that's all.

Do they value the feedback? Yes, they know it was submitted by multiple players who worked hard on it. Does it influence their decisions, sometimes. At the end of the day, it's their decisions. The point is; the kind of feedback we submit, that i've just described, is feedback that anyone can make. Anyone in the pvp community could of taken this initiative and created a document with the help of a group of pvpers.

Also, a lot of the suggestions we make do not go in. No one without exception has any concrete power over any pvp related decisions except GGG themselves. No matter how vocal you are, you can't force anything through, myself included.

If you make a post in reply to GGG when they ask for feedback, or if you make a topic in the pvp feedback section or if you email them, they will read it."

---

This was just to give a bit of perspective on what i'm doing, just to help the conversation (as to not create any confusion). Continue on.

So are you saying if we take some top racers (people who have been doing it from the beginning, who have been through the thick and thin, who've evolved through all the metas, who've one demis, who've gone into invitationals, who've received 1000 pt prizes, people who GENUINELY know what they are talking about) we'll get a dev response?

Sounds fair. So why have some things been complained about for so long and haven't been fixed? For example, virtually all top racers (by top racers, people like Throzz, Helman, lPeeps, Fraggy, cwu, Mors, and countless others) agree that descent leveling is messed up, and that levels need to be scaled down. And according to some, this problem has persisted for MONTHS! Other things, like the influence of RNG on races, the state of races such as bursts (vanilla, descent, and ledges) all have issues that most top racers would agree upon, as well as the racing schedule and race variety/cycling across seasons.

GGG reads. They hear. Then they don't do anything.

What do I propose?

> A document with commentary on everything that wants to be changed be created and signed off by top racers (even Qarl refers to them as such, so I hope no one gets caught up in the technical meaning of that term). Then we PM that to GGG and hotfix is deployed, and BAM! Descent is fixed, bursts are removed, sigs aren't boring, and the schedule is fixed. GG.

>GreenDude starts racing. GreenDude is the exalted feedback member of the community and currently posses over 900000 armor. As thus, anything he says is taken seriously by devs.

>Mors becomes the resident GreenDude for racing. ResidentGreenDudeZ is what we now call Mors.

Spoiler

Ok the last 2 were tongue in cheek, but what the fuck does it take to get GGG to make simple changes when people keep complaining about the same things? Do we have to put it on a document and have all top racer names on that paper?

Spoiler

of course there are alot more "top racers", boof, cobalt, grindiis, jstq, terrex, so many people in team maphack.

descent lvls have been fucked since season 3 when it was sig