[1.3] - Krippi's Barrage CoC - [Bloodlines]

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Krippi wrote:

I still feel gmps is better. Let's say you are at the 3.0 aps and the 2.2 aps for gmp (but really 1.8aps). So if you shoot lets say for 10s.

No GMP - 3aps*10s*4hits per attack = 120 Hits
GMP - 1.8aps*10*8 = 144 Hits

So as you can see in a 10s window gmp is getting 24 more chances to proc...not a ton but it does add up.

Now Glacial cascade hits 2-3....granted 3 is super ideal, but if you are standing right on the mob it might even be 1. Now in the spec we have 40% projectil damage, which only EK gets. We also have 100 or so elemental damage, which only half of GC and none of EK get. Yes gmp does give us 50% less damage, but it does give 40% increased dmg at higher level, granted i know it is a much lower then a 40% increase with all the spell damage and elemental damage we have.

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Terrornoid wrote:

Barrage is used because its a sequentially hitting ranged attack. Its a way of basically cheating a lot of attack speed.

I've successfully run everything short of Uber Atzi using Bar/CoC/GC/EK/Arc/LL. Its nice and "viable" as many put it, but still sits in the shadow of GMP + Projectiles.

Anything under about 2.3-2.4 APS is going to desynch, at least according to myself and many others in my Bar/CoC thread. Once you break that, it largely disappears. The consensus (also in my thread) is that the DPS loss from breaking the ~2.3 APS breakpoint is made up for in maneuverability and stability (against stated desynch.)

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Won_noW wrote:

Yes, barrage+gmp can create a little higher dps than barrage without lmp/gmp, and barrage+gmp's performance is better when u are surounded by mobs. but recently for most time I am playing in bloodline, I need to say, in hc mode, barrage + coc + ek + glacial cascade + ek/immortal call(wearing voll's devotion) is way safer.

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Terrornoid wrote:

Barrage is used because its a sequentially hitting ranged attack. Its a way of basically cheating a lot of attack speed.

I've successfully run everything short of Uber Atzi using Bar/CoC/GC/EK/Arc/LL. Its nice and "viable" as many put it, but still sits in the shadow of GMP + Projectiles.

Anything under about 2.3-2.4 APS is going to desynch, at least according to myself and many others in my Bar/CoC thread. Once you break that, it largely disappears. The consensus (also in my thread) is that the DPS loss from breaking the ~2.3 APS breakpoint is made up for in maneuverability and stability (against stated desynch.)

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Krippi wrote:

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Won_noW wrote:

Yes, barrage+gmp can create a little higher dps than barrage without lmp/gmp, and barrage+gmp's performance is better when u are surounded by mobs. but recently for most time I am playing in bloodline, I need to say, in hc mode, barrage + coc + ek + glacial cascade + ek/immortal call(wearing voll's devotion) is way safer.

I never found myself mapping with ab/fb. Typically it was ice spear/arc. This allows you to range mobs with ease and freeze and you can kill mobs on multiple levels. If I was worried about a pack I could always try to offscreen. Also I just felt ek was lackluster.

How are you consuming power charges for volls? Just when they fall off due to time?

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Terrornoid wrote:

Barrage is used because its a sequentially hitting ranged attack. Its a way of basically cheating a lot of attack speed.

I've successfully run everything short of Uber Atzi using Bar/CoC/GC/EK/Arc/LL. Its nice and "viable" as many put it, but still sits in the shadow of GMP + Projectiles.

Anything under about 2.3-2.4 APS is going to desynch, at least according to myself and many others in my Bar/CoC thread. Once you break that, it largely disappears. The consensus (also in my thread) is that the DPS loss from breaking the ~2.3 APS breakpoint is made up for in maneuverability and stability (against stated desynch.)

Maybe I didn't play around with it enough at higher APS but I still felt like I was desyncing around the same amount at like 2.7 APS or higher. I could notice that the Dps went down for single target but packs died roughly the same.

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Krippi wrote:

2.2 aps for gmp (but really 1.8aps)

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Terrornoid wrote:

Anything under about 2.3-2.4 APS is going to desynch, at least according to myself and many others in my Bar/CoC thread. Once you break that, it largely disappears. The consensus (also in my thread) is that the DPS loss from breaking the ~2.3 APS breakpoint is made up for in maneuverability and stability (against stated desynch.)

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Pirrate wrote:

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Krippi wrote:

2.2 aps for gmp (but really 1.8aps)

I did a bunch of testing today in an empty part of a hideout where my FPS is stable at 333(3ms frame time)

and for 50 barrages@3aps it took 16.5-17.1 seconds. which results in 2.95 aps with GMP.

or 45.6-46.8seconds for 100 barrages@2.27aps resulting in 2.17 real aps.

So my take on ppl saying GMP slows barrage down from 2.2 to 1.8 is probably because of lower framerate.

I definetely see my attack speed go down for example in atziri add phase when FPS goes down to 20-30.

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Terrornoid wrote:

Anything under about 2.3-2.4 APS is going to desynch, at least according to myself and many others in my Bar/CoC thread. Once you break that, it largely disappears. The consensus (also in my thread) is that the DPS loss from breaking the ~2.3 APS breakpoint is made up for in maneuverability and stability (against stated desynch.)

Not only maneuverability and stability but the statistics.
Lets assume we have 90% chance to hit. 70% chance to cast. Which results in 0.9*0.9*0.7=0.57 57% chance to cast from each projectile. Below 2.2 breakpoint it means that your average barrage casts 8*0.57=4.56 spells. 2.2*4.56 = 10 casts a second.

With, say, 3aps we are behind the break point, but it doesn't mean we have average of 0.57*4=2.28 cast per barrage.
Doing some combinatorics exercise leaves us with knowledge that we have a
~28.7% chance of 4 casts
~48.9% chance of 3 casts
~19.7% chance of 2 casts
~2.7% chance of 1 cast
which ends up being 3.036 cast per barrage.

so now we have 3*3.036=9.11 casts a second with 3aps. So as you can see here breakpoint effects are not as severe.

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Won_noW wrote:

U did not read Krippi's post carefully, did you?
Do not try to do experiments just by your imagenation.

Here is part of Krippi's post, do your test as he mentioned again, then you will find the answer. counting the fps is really not the right choice.

To test whether you have a bad breakpoint link: Barrage - CoC - GMP - Lvl 1 SRS. If you can't spawn more then 4 SRS minions in one barrage then you need to reduce or increase your attack speed to get to the proper breakpoint.

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Pirrate wrote:

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Won_noW wrote:

U did not read Krippi's post carefully, did you?
Do not try to do experiments just by your imagenation.

Here is part of Krippi's post, do your test as he mentioned again, then you will find the answer. counting the fps is really not the right choice.

To test whether you have a bad breakpoint link: Barrage - CoC - GMP - Lvl 1 SRS. If you can't spawn more then 4 SRS minions in one barrage then you need to reduce or increase your attack speed to get to the proper breakpoint.

I read his post, and I was doing SRS tests even before I read about it in his post.

I do agree that the breakpoint is 2.2-2.3 for casts per barrage for GMP. But what my post was about is his claim that barrage makes actual attack speed slower then tooltip attack speed. Which it does not according to my testing.