Season 2 Balance Feedback - Week One

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Pyrokar wrote:

The requirement of the corrupted item should be raised to the respective level of the curse it provides.

i.e. lvl10 temporal chains on hit gloves should have a lvl requirement of 46 to wear.

Not only is it incosistent, but one more thing that adds to the perpetuation of the pvp scene to be dominated by the rich people.

This is ridiculous. You can buy curse on hit gloves for anywhere from 5 chaos to 3 exalt, which is very attainable for even the most casual players.

Fighting as a melee vs all these traps builds is retarded. Traps users all have to do is just to run around non-stop and throw traps which deal insane damage, sometimes shooting with bow.

PVP should be balanced around top-end Swiss, and it's kind of hard to balance around data from only 6 events and a tournament. Also, the ladder will be somewhat flawed to balance around until close to the end of the season, as it appears most top-end players are either casually queuing to test builds or only queuing enough to maintain a position close enough to the top to make a push for a top position after the Swiss spots are awarded.

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Qarl wrote:

We have decided if we are going to make changes, we would reserve them for after the first weekend of Swiss Tournaments.

It sounds like you are considering making balance changes mid-season? I feel this would be a huge mistake. The recent Flameblast nerf mid-league was a pretty concerning precedent -- though I do admit the current leagues are a special case as they are continuing indefinitely until Act 4, and the competitive push for leveling is all but over by now.

However, making balance adjustments during a 4 week season would be extremely prejudicial to those affected, and should only be reserved for the most drastic cases of unforeseen imbalance (KB and Firestorm don't cross this threshold). It would also be unfair to award spots to the invitational under different balance conditions. The optimal time to implement balance changes would be immediately following the invitational.

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SidleJinks wrote:

Fighting as a melee vs all these traps builds is retarded. Traps users all have to do is just to run around non-stop and throw traps which deal insane damage, sometimes shooting with bow.

also cd on flicker strike is retarted
pure range char dont have any chance against melee with flicker

char name lapizz in eu deal over 1k dmg with flicker as crit dualwild dagger build

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ellefanor wrote:

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SidleJinks wrote:

Fighting as a melee vs all these traps builds is retarded. Traps users all have to do is just to run around non-stop and throw traps which deal insane damage, sometimes shooting with bow.

also cd on flicker strike is retarted
pure range char dont have any chance against melee with flicker

char name lapizz in eu deal over 1k dmg with flicker as crit dualwild dagger build

Lapizz seems to have bis gear. And cd on flicker is large enough, I never able to chase running away archer with just flicker, have to use leap slam also.

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SidleJinks wrote:

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ellefanor wrote:

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SidleJinks wrote:

Fighting as a melee vs all these traps builds is retarded. Traps users all have to do is just to run around non-stop and throw traps which deal insane damage, sometimes shooting with bow.

also cd on flicker strike is retarted
pure range char dont have any chance against melee with flicker

char name lapizz in eu deal over 1k dmg with flicker as crit dualwild dagger build

Lapizz seems to have bis gear. And cd on flicker is large enough, I never able to chase running away archer with just flicker, have to use leap slam also.

when you using flicker you deal damage, but bow to deal dmg need to stop running which is death against cyclone

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Elemental Equilibrium

The keystone needs to be nerfed in pvp. This can be done without affecting pve by mentioning that it's effects are 50% less effective against Players. The reason for this is because it is extremely hard to overcap certain builds for curses, let alone EE which cannot be dispelled. In High Level PVP, in order to stay at 75% resists from a Dual Curse + EE combo (with high gems and quality), you need 232% for all three resistances. Please note that applying EE and the curses can all be done offscreen using a bow for example.

I'd like to point out that there are certain builds who rely on that -50% from EE to be viable. I'm currently playing an EA character and this is one of those builds.

I've been testing the single target damage from EA (this means spamming a target untill 5 stacks of EA are reached and then letting it explode without the target being near any walls) and against some players I just can not do enough damage to bring down their hp, their life regen literally outheals it.
Keep in mind I am using dual curses (ele weakness + flamability) and EE!

Nerfing EE by half would make these players completely immune to my "non-wallbang" shots.

Don't get me wrong, EE can still be very powerful when used by certain builds, but nerfing EE would also mean that they are nerfing a bunch of other builds who weren't that OP to begin with.

EDIT: There might not be a way to dispell EE but there are ways to counter it, slapping on a purity of X for example like some of the players have started doing already reduces the effectiveness of EE by more than 50% (26% resistance on a lvl 7 purity of X)! If they reduced the effectiveness of the keystone AND the player is using a purity of X, the EE would just completely be negated!

Does heavy strike have to have a nerf to damage or can the stun be adjusted? I dont think its damage is too much if it wasnt stunning as hard. Its pretty insane how much stun it gets, benefits from range with its knockback, and does decent damage + has many nice supports like multi strike.

tbh its too early to make anymore nerfs. The meta has changed so much already and I feel many people are scared of a few powerful builds they have come across during blitz events. Making any changes now really isnt fair to those builds. Firestorm doesnt need to be nerfed this season. Let it play out and if its too dominant then its time to fix it. Nothing discourages creative players more than nerfing their build a day before the tourney leaving them little to no time to become competitive again.

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Monstacookie wrote:

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Spoiler

Elemental Equilibrium

The keystone needs to be nerfed in pvp. This can be done without affecting pve by mentioning that it's effects are 50% less effective against Players. The reason for this is because it is extremely hard to overcap certain builds for curses, let alone EE which cannot be dispelled. In High Level PVP, in order to stay at 75% resists from a Dual Curse + EE combo (with high gems and quality), you need 232% for all three resistances. Please note that applying EE and the curses can all be done offscreen using a bow for example.

Spoiler

I'd like to point out that there are certain builds who rely on that -50% from EE to be viable. I'm currently playing an EA character and this is one of those builds.

I've been testing the single target damage from EA (this means spamming a target untill 5 stacks of EA are reached and then letting it explode without the target being near any walls) and against some players I just can not do enough damage to bring down their hp, their life regen literally outheals it.
Keep in mind I am using dual curses (ele weakness + flamability) and EE!

Nerfing EE by half would make these players completely immune to my "non-wallbang" shots.

Don't get me wrong, EE can still be very powerful when used by certain builds, but nerfing EE would also mean that they are nerfing a bunch of other builds who weren't that OP to begin with.

EDIT: There might not be a way to dispell EE but there are ways to counter it, slapping on a purity of X for example like some of the players have started doing already reduces the effectiveness of EE by more than 50% (26% resistance on a lvl 7 purity of X)! If they reduced the effectiveness of the keystone AND the player is using a purity of X, the EE would just completely be negated!

Also the 30 all res flask roll is very very good at countering EE. I dont see enough people talking about this. Stack some resistances and a variety of warding flasks in conjunction and in 1v1 environments against EE, EE will seem very week and only team oriented.

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dzordzo wrote:

Spoiler

In my opinion balance should focus on swiss events not blitz for reasons already pointed out.

- LLD stuff below

One of the things bothering me is how easy it is to stun with skills that hit multiple times per cast/attack - tornado shot, firestorm and molten strike. In my opinion the more times a skill hits the less stun duration it should have.

Another thing only partially related to balance is fix the ilvl of leo's items! Almost nobody is using/crafting theese items right now (basing my claim on how many leo's vs how many elreon's items are for sale in torment/bloodlines), and I think this is limiting the meta.

Elreon's jewellery is so dominant I can't imagine doing a build without atleast 1 such item, 2 whenever possible. Mana cost for most skills is balanced for PvE and nobody is running with 5/6 linked items by the time they are level 28 so maybe you should review mana cost and how neccessary it is to have elreon's jewellery in LLD.

Other than that I am pretty happy with the balance, wanders are ok, ts/punc is ok, sword melee is a bit too dominant compared to anything else melee which is well known but doesn't concern me too much. Not sure about trappers, the 2.5 sec trap immunity was a good call, some people pointed out the immunity should be made in sync with trap reload time which is a good suggestion (2.5 -> 3 seconds), in my opinion trappers still have one of the most OP keystones (high explosives).

I agree with every aspect of this post. mana cost needs to be reviewed so elreon jewelry isnt so dominant, stun needs adjusted in general, leos items please fix them ASAP.

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Kaysee wrote:

Purely a self interested post here...

- would it be possible to reduce Elreon's Mti-Mod craft for LLD (maybe give a similar version to Leo)?

Reason is LLD is the entry point to PvP and gearing is a barrier. Many casuals who are interested in LLD would find it difficult to justify spending 2ex in order to multi craft a single item.

Lowering the cost for LLD might help make it more accessible.

Cheers.

ya
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Also
"it's coming"

GGG I think you are a bit off base on puncture. Its not nearly as strong and is one of the only defenses for bow against flicker molten combo. Even then without clever construction its pretty worthless. Add to this the bleed immunity changes to flask and even with great gear it is hard to stay in top ten.

I really suggest you guys watch a few matches and check the damage. I feel most things are pretty balanced. Cyclone makes people invincible (see) 3v3 cyclones winning 3v1. Firestorm perma stunning CPUs and EE allowing one shots. This is based on lld play I have no clue about HLD.

I am fairly well geared and my puncture traps with multi trap barely clears enough DPs for defensive play. Honestly I think the season seems pretty balanced and has variety except for some obvious outliers.

My main gripe is the crashing instances and desync. Nothing worse than getting killed by flicker when you think the guy is halfway across the board.

Leave your balancing for after the season please.
You already pissed people off by merging leagues without warning after they spent orbs on both leagues. Now you nerf puncture again mid season. Listen to the top guys for once. If you focus on mid tier you are crippling builds that go to the seventh round with other stronger builds.

Realize max block plus acro plus tempest shield builds are hard enough to land a trap on. Now you want it to only tickle.

Edit: because fuck if I am not pissed you guys have no clue what's going on and want to Nerf my build QQ.