New Skill Development - Part 2

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Trollenstein wrote:

...Abyssal Cry is more like a suicidal Temporal Chains debuff to large groups than something that will more directly affect the caster like Enduring Cry. And what use does movement speed reduction actually have when the enemy is already on top of you?

Poor design for that gem. Really poor...

Best gem VS devourers kappa~

So to add to what's been said,

As a 100% pierce crit ranger, no CWDT/EC/IC setup means that I will effectively one-shot myself to any offscreen reflect, regardless of how much health, armor, evasion or dodge I have. Which is exactly how I take this type of damage half the time, because the camera is so zoomed in you can barely see what's ahead of you.

I hope you guys are smart and are either planning a) a reflect rework, or b) allowing Enduring Cry to still work with CWDT. Because you are otherwise going to fuck your game up, and make a lot of people angry.

Edit: Note that this is not just about reflect. Devourers, rhoas, charging soldiers, the jumping things, and the mobs that explode into spikes when they die--these are all badly balanced damage mechanics that can literally one-shot you if you are not running CWDT/EC/IC. CWDT has to work with these gems because the game is not designed to work without it.

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Lord_Kamster wrote:

So to add to what's been said,

As a 100% pierce crit ranger, no CWDT/EC/IC setup means that I will effectively one-shot myself to any offscreen reflect, regardless of how much health, armor, evasion or dodge I have. Which is exactly how I take this type of damage half the time, because the camera is so zoomed in you can barely see what's ahead of you.

I hope you guys are smart and are either planning a) a reflect rework, or b) allowing Enduring Cry to still work with CWDT. Because you are otherwise going to fuck your game up, and make a lot of people angry.

Edit: Note that this is not just about reflect. Devourers, rhoas, charging soldiers, the jumping things, and the mobs that explode into spikes when they die--these are all badly balanced damage mechanics that can literally one-shot you if you are not running CWDT/EC/IC. CWDT has to work with these gems because the game is not designed to work without it.

Sounds like a glass cannon build. Would "Slower Projectiles" make it so your arrows do not travel as far?

A rework of many mechanics is likely in the pipeline. Making people angry should be the farthest of their concerns when it comes to how they balance the new systems.

Sounds interesting. Here's a few things that come to mind:


1. Cast speed has no effect for Enduring Cry (+ for the new warcries), compensated by faster base cast speed for warcries = VERY GOOD. Currently self-casting Enduring Cry is a bit clunky even with a Faster Casting gem, so this change frees a gem slot and makes it less clunky. Yay!



2. Spell Echo + Enduring Cry: Moved to the feedback forum, as I felt the suggestions may be worth something and gain more visibility there:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1203095



3. Then the big one: Cast when Damage Taken + Enduring Cry + Immortal Call + Increased Duration (CwDT + EC + IC + ID in short).

Firstly, removing EC from the combo already makes it much less reliable, it would only work against very quick successive hits (also making Increased Duration much more important).

Secondly, what about Immortal Call, will it also be classified as a warcry? Thematically it would be very fitting for it to also be a warcry instead of a spell. HOWEVER, that would of course completely remove the CwDT + IC combo. This leads to a CwDT + IC rant:

CwDT + EC + IC + ID combo feels already almost disgusting. It's basically a mandatory 3-4 link consumed on every character, regardless if it's a spell caster, archer or melee. It is a very useful combo, but also silly that it's almost mandatory. I know, no one is literally forcing anyone to use that combo, but in most cases it's simply too good to pass. Especially when the game has the potential to dish out INSANE burst physical damage. Good examples include a pack of leapers, Labyrinth boss Sallazzang (although that one can be avoided) and physical reflect damage. Without CwDT + EC + IC (+ ID) those physical damage sources are an instant death for many builds. Of course it's possible to have 30k armour + 75% block, but not everyone wants to play an armour block tank.

I have mixed feelings about CwDT + EC + IC + ID combo. Getting rid of that would make the game more interesting and diverse, but on the other hand it would lead to a lot of instant deaths, which would lead to a lot of frustration. Not to mention that many builds would then never even touch a physical reflect map.

Sorry but this skill looks useless to me, by the time someone/i cast it i already killed all the mobs. It needs a serious debuff, mov speed is a joke.

Removing Enduring cry from CWDT chain will greatly affecct melee and channelling builds (Incinerate, FB for example) - you'll stop dealing damage=leeching life to cast EC. For melee without block it means -%hp, for channneling - -%hp and -damage (incinerate/fb stacks lost).

The solution can be making EC self cast only, but forcing it to be cast without interruption to main skill (like it's done now by cwdt). You can WarCry while swinging your sword!

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Breakbeat wrote:

RIP Melee Hardcore

Half the time I forget to set up my cwdt ec until I'm already mid-80s, and I never use IC with it. Only rip when I make stupid mistakes like trying to faceroll extra damage residence dominus.

I'm seriously tired of people taking a shit on melee. I have 0 problems running it.

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Zaanus wrote:

Before EC is taken off CWDT, you simply have to do something about the shit tier balance job that has gone into leap slam packs (frogs, goats to lesser extent) and devourers.

See above. Enduring cry isn't going to provide enough mitigation to deal with an entire extra pack size crew of deadly devourers, which is about the only time I even feel close to dying.

Bone rhoas give me more problems, but oh yeah, I got whirling blades, granite flasks, and seething flasks.

Honestly, most of the time this happens to me, it's because I whirled an entire screen's worth of distance directly into their range and didn't give myself enough reaction time.

Granite flasks, seething flasks. Again.

Seriously, is skill out there still? Anywhere? Not once in my PoE career have I run IC on CWDT, and not once in my PoE career playing HC leagues have I ripped to devourers because I didn't have it set up. SC, sure, cuz I play like an idiot in SC leagues.

GGG's taking away a mistake. Good for them. This game's not meant to be easy. Thank god this is getting axed, maybe we'll start to learn to be better players again.

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Kharantir wrote:

Removing Enduring cry from CWDT chain will greatly affecct melee and channelling builds (Incinerate, FB for example) - you'll stop dealing damage=leeching life to cast EC. For melee without block it means -%hp, for channneling - -%hp and -damage (incinerate/fb stacks lost).

The solution can be making EC self cast only, but forcing it to be cast without interruption to main skill (like it's done now by cwdt). You can WarCry while swinging your sword!

This is honestly the way I've been hoping GGG would go ever since I started playing. The issue kind of took a back seat when trigger gems were released since we didn't have to self-cast utility spells anymore, but with the removal of Enduring Cry and CwDT combo, I feel this issue will be put back into the forefront of the game.

This game is already too much of a one-button game, and no amount of balance will change that. The only way to fix this is to make using other skills more reliable and easy to do, which involves some major changes to the fundamental mechanics of the engine (such as the lack of command queuing).

IMO this skill will be very good with skills that have a limited AoE (most likely thru Conc Effect).

smells like CWDT in here :)