Let's talk about PvP

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Rekt_that wrote:

Poe foe esports is my guess, because that's what blizzard did. They're testing the waters with the races.

you realize this is a 5 year old post, races have been around for 8 years, right?

wait theirs pvp in Path of Exile????

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TheRoyalShu wrote:

wait theirs pvp in Path of Exile????

PvP isn't really active. I'd say it's the handicapped unicorn-child of PoE.

The last missing piece to achieve perfection: PvP

PvP like Tower Defense Team/Capture the Flag (mini-MOBA) is good.

Hello everyone,
Thanks for the information. But, I think the most "feared" thing is possible balance changes made to the core game because of PvP. Having heard the last NerdBro/Greendude podcast it seems that the development of PvP is taking that topic very seriously. I don't play PvP but I enjoyed the PoEArena tournament casted by WillyWonka and Greendude a few months ago. I hope the invitational will have a similar format.

Most Path of Exile players don't play PvP. A significant part of those who do not play PvP do not know at all that there is a PvP mode in the game, and those who know about PvP are either indifferent or very negative about PvP. At the same time, the PvP mode, as a source of endless challenges, competition and fresh new experiences for players, is an important component of multiplayer play, which can endlessly motivate players to stay in the game, even if the game content has not been updated for a long time.

Why don't players in Path of Exile play PvP, and what can be done to keep players interested in this game mode?

I see 1 main reason for players' lack of interest in PvP: PvP brings absolutely no in-game profit (currency orbs, valuable items, resources for craft, etc) to the players. Players are not interested in spending significant time and effort on the game mode that brings them absolutely nothing. As in life - no one would even participate in the Olympiad if there were no prize money. Playing PvP can be fun, but when the player spends considerable time and energy, he wants to get something in return, he wants to see real in-game benefits from his efforts. If he does not receive anything, he feels that his powers are wasted, and this is really true. In all RPGs with multiplayer and PvP, players receive some kind of reward for victories in PvP, for example, in Dark Souls rewards for PvP victories are "souls", the currency required to buy items and upgrade equipment, in Albion Online - valuable resources for trading and crafting. In Path of Exile players receive nothing. So players have no motivation to play PvP - they simply get nothing for their efforts. They can have enthusiasm, but enthusiasm alone is not enough.

What can be done about this reason? I suggest the following solution:

Create large, automatically generated locations (further in the text - "PvP-Locations"), for a maximum of 100 players, in this PvP-locations also must be monsters and several different bosses in same PvP-location, that will respawn after any player killing them after a certain period of time. So it will be locations, where players can kill mosnters and bosses, farm valuable resources and fight each other at the same time. Players can enter these PvP-Locations by using a special consumable item in the map device, which will create 6 portals to this PvP-location, like it happens with ordinary maps. Each entering that PvP-location will consume 1 portal. If there are already 100 players in the PvP-Location, a new one is automatically created and filled with new players. At these PvP-Locations, there is an increased chance of dropping valuable items from monsters and bosses, but all players can attack and kill each other, and upon death, the player loses everything from he's character inventory, that he picked up in current PvP-Location (exactly as it happening now in Heist in escape phase). The loot lost in this way remains where the player died, and can be picked up either by the players who attacked him, or by any other player in same place, or by the player himself, if he returns to the place of his death, and the loot has not been picked up by that time by someone else. Loot not picked up by anyone disappears after a certain period of time. The player have 6 portals to this PvP-Location, as for ordinary map. The player can choose any strategy of behavior in these PvP locations, for example, he can attack other players to get their loot, or he can team up with other peaceful players to farm and protect his loot from attacking players. The player can stay at the PvP-Location any amount of time, or he may decide to return to hideout to save the loot he received at the PvP-location, but exit from PvP-location will cost him 1 portal, as how it goes on ordinary maps now. Also, upon death, the player loses 1 portal. If 6 portals are lost, the player must use a new consumable item, after that the game will open 6 new portals to any randomly selected from the existing PvP-Locations, which are not yet completely filled with players, not necessarily on the same one where player was died. Players will be able to go to these PvP-Locations in the party, each party member consumes 1 portal, as for ordinary maps. For members of the same party, it is desirable to include friendly fire. In each PvP-Location, it is desirable to make several connected sub-areas with different biomes and different bosses, as well as add various traps and challenges, like in the labyrinth and Doryani's Machinerium, to further diversify the gameplay. Also, this PvP-locations can be attached to specific atlas regions, and consumable items that alows player to access to PvP-locations, can be different for each atlas region, so groups of players or guilds can try do dominate or fight for dominance in specific regions.

The advantages of this solution:
1. Becouse PvP is an endless challenge, in PvP there will always be something new and unexpected, each run in each PvP-location will be different, every time it will be a new fresh experience that will not let the players get bored. It will also motivate players to improve their builds, improve their playing skills, and stay in the game much more time.
2. Players receive significant in-game profit from the investment of efforts in pvp, the players do not get the impression that their forces are wasted.
3. Players will be highly motivated to play PvP to make a huge in-game profit.
4. Guilds will be able to join forces for successful farming in such PvP-Location, which will increase the motivation of players to unite in guilds.
5. Players who do not want to play pvp can simply not use a consumable item and calmly play the game modes they are interested in.
6. To implement the described functionality, no major game modifications are required, all the necessary mechanics have already been implemented.

I believe that the proposed solution will make the PvP mode much more attractive for the bulk of players. I ask the GGG developers, if possible, to pay attention to my post, and if what I described seems interesting and worth the investment, may be add the described functionality to the game.

Saying that most PoE players don't PvP is not saying much. The community isn't that large.

Diablo established itself on a cycle of PvE to gear, PvP to entertain.

The issue with PvE has always been the scripted nature of it. There are expiration dates on scripted content that simply do not exist on P2P content.

P2P content is best thought of like Battlegrounds in WoW. How those battlegrounds remained relevant to so many players over the years is a simple formula to understand. Every time you entered Arathi Basin the encounters were somehow different. Players defended objectives in an unpredictable way and would organize and approach victory intelligently.

Rare are the circumstances in which scripted content can achieve the same outcome. What went wrong over the years was their disinterest in supporting these player vs player features. Specifically making PvP the bastard child of PvE in terms of character development and itemization.

We see the top games are games on Twitch and it's no mystery that there is a much larger audience for P2P features. While PvE games do draw down a substantial number of players you're simply avoiding the truth that far more players engage with P2P focused games than PvE focused games.

That isn't to say PoE should become a P2P game. I've always argued that a game should know what it is and should stay in its lane. The issue is if PoE remains in this lane the growth will struggle. We see already a growing intolerance for added PvE features. I think the community for PvE features is as big as it gets. The game needs more features outside of PvE to continue growing. That in my estimation is not up for debate.

What can be done is what companies like Blizzard did long ago. If someone doesn't want to engage with PvP then have it so they can toggle it off at character creation. Have specific challenge rewards for PvP and people who want to PvP will engage. You can sustain both communities if you are careful to not chain one to the other in an unnecessary and hindering way.

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The issue with PvE has always been the scripted nature of it. There are expiration dates on scripted content that simply do not exist on P2P content.

That's simply untrue. PvP is often more fickle, as once the meta develops to a point, entry into the game tightens immensely. Refreshing the system is mandatory in PvP even moreso than PvE, else you just have the same 10 people facing each other until each of them fall off due to boredom. Compare that to games like Diablo II, where reentry is absurdly stagnant yet still moderately popular, to the point Blizz is trying to cash in on it. I'm sure the games you refer to have consistent updates like any other game, which require the resources allotted to do so.

Not saying PvP can't be a thing, and from the sounds of things, Royale may be that thing going forward, at least for a while. But claiming PvP doesn't stagnate as fast is simply wrong, and once it begins to make that turn, the decline is incredibly swift.

That said, PvP games tend to limit mechanics as well, opting for technique over formula. You look at Royale, and that's pretty much what they've done; limited skills, limited tree, and a somewhat defined environment over and again. That's not really how PoE has been received before, where most players work to piece together a masterpiece out of infinite possibilities.

I think this general outlook for PoE keeps them from having successful smaller PvE skirmishes (less than 10 players), but anything over 10 players tends to be passed on when it comes to e-sports, I'd wager. Not saying it's impossible to make PoE an e-sport of that nature, but I don't think that's likely given the current game environment. Note that some PvP and PvE games tend to try to mix it up with mixed modes, but usually they tend to have completely different fanbases because nobody wants to break their masterpiece character's progression with sporadic queue play, and competitors can't really get much PvEing done between matches. PoE is trying to stand out with their premium product. They are now trying to maintain the possibility of a Hearthstone-esque experience when bored of the main event, but you have to follow your main product. If they maintain Royale, I'd actually be concerned how much resources they are using to maintain it given the focus between PoE, Royale, and developing PoE 2.

All in all, though, PoE is not particularly struggling. This past league was somewhat poorly received, and despite having a significant drop-off in the last month of it, this past year has been a bit inflated.

You need to stretch-lock the resolution for Royal, it is pretty much pay to win to play with ultra wide screen.