[2.0 update!!!] Dyz's School of Stun - Stunlock the game - farm Atziri

Could this build work with Kaom's Primacy Axe?

GET RID OF ADDED FIRE DAMAGE

Anything remotely threatening will have 50% fire resist. It only adds about 20% more damage in real-world terms.

Replace it with

By the end game you're either at full life or you're dead. With everything on the screen stunlocked, you're probably at full life the vast majority of the time. Unless you're using Death's Oath, which unfortunately is the weakest aspect of that otherwise solid unique. Gotta love life leech amulets..

Also Berserking is bloody terrible - 3% ias per point spent? When Staff and Mace attack Speed And Life will give you that much and 2% life? Only worth taking if you're taking the entirety of the Scion life% wheel.

I recommend this as core, with expansion to personal preference (I prefer Baptism by Light route). Arguments about certain things:

Endurance Charges - With Endurance Charge on Melee Stun, when you push the Immortal Call button (instead of letting Cast on Damage Taken overwrite the timer) you shut off incidental physical damage completely, forever. Each charge is therefore functional just +1 second to how long you can wait until pushing the Be Immortal button again.

Stun Mastery - Not so great in retrospect. By endgame its the stun equivalent of doing around +15% more damage, which is about what you'd get if you put those points into damage in the first place. Unwavering Stance is worth 3 points, but Stun Mastery...

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rampagingrabbit wrote:

Could this build work with Kaom's Primacy Axe?

Ground Slam requires stave or mace. Ground Slam is very powerful, since it has added stun threshold reduction AND it's a ranged attack that works with Melee Physical support gems. And axes will have 26% less stun threshold reduction since they can't use Skull Cracking on the passive tree.

Skill tree not work

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kolton wrote:

Heck yeah, brotha. This is the only 2h build I'd remake for 1.2.
One question, though. How does warlord's mark compare to vulnerability in terms of stun reliability now that the stun component has been moved to warlord's?

I haven't fully tested this yet. I plan to make a video later of the build permastunning Dominus, and plan to use a low level warlords mark in that attempt. If it doesn't work, I will try vulnerability to see how that goes.

In the end it is really a minimum damage question. There are mauls better than mine, and I know for a fact that my damage range stuns him pretty well without a curse. But to make it completely safe, I use vulnerability or now warlords mark to push it over the limit.

I looked at the build and I'm sorry but what's with the skilltree? When are you going to get the endurance charges that you actually need? I could understand if you took like skill duration nodes so you would immortal call so you would have a higher chance of not dying before getting your first click off, but you don't.

I'm not going to really rework the build because I think this build shouldn't be done as a marauder (it'll work out but Marauders are ugly and they sound like 40 year old chain smokers) but this duelist build should give you some ideas as to how you could improve the marauder one (this one isn't perfect either):


Everything else seems pretty okay.

PS has anyone tested whether stun threshold reduction actually gets rounded down after diminishing returns? That's what I heard from GGG, but I've never seen anyone actually test it.

PPS iron grip is in the build because almost all of your damage now is % inc phys dmg and not melee dmg so it would work with spectral throw. And at the damage you deal even in a 4L spectral throw will stun lock most things. It's quite nice to deal with really dangerous things (might be less of an issue in a softcore league).

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ITTVx wrote:

What are your thoughts on Marohi Erqi for this build? Would the explicit +40-50% stun duration mod outweigh Marohi's slower base attack speed?

Marohi Erqi is a good "starter" maul for this build. You will eventually want to get a better maul with some of the same properties.

Specifically about the 40-50% stun duration, you only need duration long enough to keep an enemy stunned while you wind up another swing. Currently, my Heavy Strike is sitting at 2.4 attacks per second, or .42 sec (420ms) swing. This means that with a base of 350ms stun duration, I only need a little bit more stun duration to permanently stun that monster, given my attack speed, and RT which doesn't let me miss. My build with 20/20 gems sits at 190% increased stun durations, which works out to over 1 second of stun. So, the stun duration is important when you have a slow attack speed, but you really should focus on getting as high a minimum hit damage as you can.

Simply put, according to my calculations, a monster has to have over 146 million hp for my minimum damage of 11,272 to have less than 25% chance to stun that monster. When you look at those numbers, that's gross.

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rampagingrabbit wrote:

Could this build work with Kaom's Primacy Axe?

You could have a stun build with axes, but keep in mind that 26% of Stun Threshold reduction comes from Mace specific nodes, so if you were to copy my build, with the same stats, you would cap your Stun Threshold Reduction at 123%, which would mean you need to deal significantly higher damage than me to stun as effectively with an axe.

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enril29a wrote:

Simply put, according to my calculations, a monster has to have over 146 million hp for my minimum damage of 11,272 to have less than 25% chance to stun that monster. When you look at those numbers, that's gross.

Actually, your minimum damage is something like 6600, because resistances DO apply to the fire, cold and chaos damage you deal and you appear to not really have a way to deal with resistances (no penetration).

Also you only have 93% stun threshold reduction active, because apparently this gets rounded down after diminishing returns.

PS I'm not entirely sure of the rounding. I did get it from GGG, but not as a reply to one of my forum posts.

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LimitedRooster wrote:

GET RID OF ADDED FIRE DAMAGE

Anything remotely threatening will have 50% fire resist. It only adds about 20% more damage in real-world terms.

Replace it with

By the end game you're either at full life or you're dead. With everything on the screen stunlocked, you're probably at full life the vast majority of the time. Unless you're using Death's Oath, which unfortunately is the weakest aspect of that otherwise solid unique. Gotta love life leech amulets..

This doesn't work in all situations. Say I drop Death's Oath, and use this gem. This build's strategy is sometimes to simply lock down the most dangerous threat. Jungle Valley boss, for instance, would not be a good place for damage on full life, as the strategy is to ignore the spider minions and just focus the boss. This would cause your damage to "flap" and wouldn't be good at all. You need to make sure your damage is constant to consistently stun. With 78 Map Dominus, if a mob hits you and knocks you out of full health, that could be a "touch of god" that sends you to town. I don't recommend damage on full health for non ES builds. I go for consistency.

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LimitedRooster wrote:

Also Berserking is bloody terrible - 3% ias per point spent? When Staff and Mace attack Speed And Life will give you that much and 2% life? Only worth taking if you're taking the entirety of the Scion life% wheel.

This is fine, but over all, you are getting 6% per node in the berserking cluster. Three nodes, 18% increased attack speed. It's not a waste if you get all three. You will over all get more damage from the increased attack speed nodes than from 12% inc mace damage and 3% att speed. Even with 1 extra node, at most, you will get 15% inc phys, which still doesn't change that 18% (more) attack speed will outweigh that damage. And specifically on a build that needs that attack speed. Karui Mauls are one of the slowest weapons in the game.

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LimitedRooster wrote:

Endurance Charges - With Endurance Charge on Melee Stun, when you push the Immortal Call button (instead of letting Cast on Damage Taken overwrite the timer) you shut off incidental physical damage completely, forever. Each charge is therefore functional just +1 second to how long you can wait until pushing the Be Immortal button again.

This is really semantics. I use CWDT because rarely does it matter. I would suggest using it self cast if you are in an extra damage as element map, but even then, it usually doesn't matter much unless you surround yourself. With a 5k health pool, -20% crit damage, and 44% phys reduction (not counting the extra 28% flat reduction from charges), physical damage isn't going to put you under. Elemental damage is your biggest concern.

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LimitedRooster wrote:

Stun Mastery - Not so great in retrospect. By endgame its the stun equivalent of doing around +15% more damage, which is about what you'd get if you put those points into damage in the first place. Unwavering Stance is worth 3 points, but Stun Mastery...

As this build doesn't crit, and gets most of it's stun potential from raw damage, stacking Stun Threshold Reduction is massive. To really reach the stun threshold of the end-game bosses, this extra 15% does matter. Assuming most people get up to my level of gear, which is fairly cheap, these nodes remain important. If someone has a much better maul, with at least a master crafted stun threshold reduction, these become less important. Although if someone out there wants to do a non-mace version, again, important.

Thank you for your comments on the build, and even though I don't agree with most of them, I enjoy the discussion.

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Aelloon wrote:

I looked at the build and I'm sorry but what's with the skilltree? When are you going to get the endurance charges that you actually need? I could understand if you took like skill duration nodes so you would immortal call so you would have a higher chance of not dying before getting your first click off, but you don't.

I'm not sure what you are talking about? My skill tree in the OP has 3 endurance charges taken.

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Aelloon wrote:

I'm not going to really rework the build because I think this build shouldn't be done as a marauder (it'll work out but Marauders are ugly and they sound like 40 year old chain smokers) but this duelist build should give you some ideas as to how you could improve the marauder one (this one isn't perfect either):

I somewhat agree that Duelist might make a better permastunner, but I like Marauders. So I went Marauder. Mainly because with 2 extra nodes you can get another 10% IAS from the beginning of the duelist tree.

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Aelloon wrote:

PS has anyone tested whether stun threshold reduction actually gets rounded down after diminishing returns? That's what I heard from GGG, but I've never seen anyone actually test it.

I'm unsure about how easily this could be tested. We would need numbers and specific thresholds to figure out if it rounded up or down. All I know is that my build stuns.

"

Aelloon wrote:

PPS iron grip is in the build because almost all of your damage now is % inc phys dmg and not melee dmg so it would work with spectral throw. And at the damage you deal even in a 4L spectral throw will stun lock most things. It's quite nice to deal with really dangerous things (might be less of an issue in a softcore league).

Spec throw could work, but you will lose 25% Threshold Reduction by not using Groundslam. I'd actually like to see a spectral throw version, simply because it sounds interesting. However, looking at the skill gem itself, I'm unsure how well it would do because of the low base damage. Even though it has +Projectile damage, the low base damage is going to nerf all of the doubling effects of scaling physical gems/auras. Iron grip could very well compensate for this, as at 503 STR, that would equate to doubling the projectile damage. Interesting....