[3.0] NeverSink's ♣ INDEPTH Tornado&Archer Guide ♣ Beginner friendly ♣ Rapid clear ♣ All bosses

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Hessed wrote:

Hi .. I'm looking for some expert opinion, this is a build that I design .. is there something wrong? why? (I receive all kinds of criticism)

the idea was to focus firstly, defensive aspects (evasion and elemental resistance) and one offensive (much critical damage)

I have doubts about if I try to have the maximum frenzy charge or not.. and how many would be the optimal number of spaces for gems

https://poeplanner.com/AAkAAPcACQIAAHjEot-YYlqn1P7IJJ3Tfu96Vvp_KznUb_KgnzH6dveq-Kiiwdgj9k2SUUcV8JLzXkX2oxUg3Q1yw6sLzAZbryF2hs7BMxR1pMKbJujW53RtbOywjAu5fOdUJP3_3gYjexSNv9QjMHHdqEt4OkL668EA9Uu-OutjES8FtcLsKlt59lLsmCOCXgMeH0ErCl3yKgtwUrUIcaGPT04qTP9DMb_VU7tEnizpAO4qTT8nSsgAXhmO7YMILpuNidOMNnpTYevPeuHboaS1SOsUzep9W6xHMHyNfdRChG8-z73mwzNaGrTFDPKly91GY6cRgeXmnMQAAAAAAA==

(P/D: sorry for my english)

So I imported your build into PoB with my gear... (https://imgur.com/a/Xe0NQ - First is yours, second is the tree in the guide.) The images speak for themselves. If you never played the game before and/or this would be your first ever self-built character, just use NeverSink's tree.

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Hessed wrote:

Hi .. I'm looking for some expert opinion, this is a build that I design .. is there something wrong? why? (I receive all kinds of criticism)

the idea was to focus firstly, defensive aspects (evasion and elemental resistance) and one offensive (much critical damage)

I have doubts about if I try to have the maximum frenzy charge or not.. and how many would be the optimal number of spaces for gems

https://poeplanner.com/AAkAAPcACQIAAHjEot-YYlqn1P7IJJ3Tfu96Vvp_KznUb_KgnzH6dveq-Kiiwdgj9k2SUUcV8JLzXkX2oxUg3Q1yw6sLzAZbryF2hs7BMxR1pMKbJujW53RtbOywjAu5fOdUJP3_3gYjexSNv9QjMHHdqEt4OkL668EA9Uu-OutjES8FtcLsKlt59lLsmCOCXgMeH0ErCl3yKgtwUrUIcaGPT04qTP9DMb_VU7tEnizpAO4qTT8nSsgAXhmO7YMILpuNidOMNnpTYevPeuHboaS1SOsUzep9W6xHMHyNfdRChG8-z73mwzNaGrTFDPKly91GY6cRgeXmnMQAAAAAAA==

(P/D: sorry for my english)

Look at the tree in this OT. There are some things you can change and maybe even some flaws but you are wasting many many skillpoints, because you are missing the basics.

Point Blank, really? You need uber items for that and most likely Vaalpact for leech - it means you have to facetank enemies and Bosses!!! How without lifenodes, Lifeleech and damage?

Your are wasting to much on evasion. It is not bad, but It won't save you from oneshots. There are some good nodes with evasion that come with other boni (like +life) like the first evasion nodes. But Void Barrier? You will have zero ES (and also zero Armour with Phase Acrobatics). Wasted. You are wasting also a lot of points to go up to Sentinel and Reflexes - for what?. You get way more on items and flasks that just cost a few chaos. Thats already 8 Skillpoints for nothing (maybe 1-2% evasion in the end).

Note that Evasion depends on base from items, flasks (stibnite + jade) and maybe grace. This has the biggest influence. After that you will get just few % more.

Also elemental resistances on tree. You get those easily on items. There is already a cap at 75%. It may help later to optimize a litte bit, because it will get very expensive in the end with uber items that are expensive - but for starting the build you don't have to get those pure +elemental resist nodes. It is easy to get to 75% just with items (or with flasks if you are pathfinder and can keep them up).

You have no lifeleech or manaleech (besides Bloodrinker)!!! Unplaybable. It is not just about pure stats.

You took 2 stat nodes (30 Str /Int) - sometimes you need them - but you don't plan for them. Get it on items or keep some gems lower. You are also not using Blood Siphon which adds 10% Life and 20 strength for free - pretty much a mandadority node as Rangers have no life.

Damage - you mostly try to get the worst nodes. Like those around piercing (even piercing is questionable but can maybe work with the right setup) where you get only 10% projectile damage. The first node at the start gets you 16% for instance. But there are better nodes for damage - Primeval force tree with big ele damage gain and ele piercing for instance.

Life - you are missing a lot of lifenodes. Ranger is already handicapped there, because most are low and there are not that many. You miss all good ones (and even the lower ones). Life nodes are one of the most important nodes - evasion is no substitute and ele resistance is capped anyways.

Frenzy charges: As many as you can get. One of the best things with raider. So with uberlab 7(?) max (more only with items). You are missing frenzy node too. Frenzy duration is not important, you have to take those nodes anyways.

I can't see any "design" here. You just clicked around. Probably 20+ skillpoints wasted or so and missing the basics like leech, life and good damage nodes.

So follow the guide or use PoB and make some decisions that are better than in OP (think his points near Thick skin are wasted, because Neversink probably went to Point Blank at some point, but Life nodes near Revenge of the Hunt would grant 8% evasion on top of 4% life). He just forgot obviously - as he knows more about the game than me - as I just started.

if you aren't going raider, you can just copy my tree (from the char "Oriathdoomfinder")

www.poeurl.com/bA9L

The tree is decent for allround purposes (survival+dps), for some specific goals you should change it a bit. If you want to go raider and/or can't afford lioneye's fall, change it a bit (get all frenzy charges for raider etc.)

www.poeurl.com/bA9M (starter raider tree w/o lioneye's fall)


EDIT2: the biggest two mistakes in your tree were imo

1) you HEAVILY neglected life for evasion+random stuff (accuracy, resistances). You need around
160-170% inc. life from the tree for a standard softcore version of this (even for MF stuff at least...110%+). Extra evasion nodes are OK if you go for QotF-style-farming of lower lvl maps - but I don't think you had this in mind.

2) 1-2 point-jewels are must-take-points once you got enough cash to buy the 3p-jewels.

@Kindergarten: actually PB is quite the default for this build class and perfectly safe/viable with a non-crazy tree. The clear isn't really getting worse but you get that single target going vs bosses (with both barrage+TS you kind of want to stay close for max dps). 50% "more" is a lot..and you generally want to do significant damage to bosses (ideally kill them) within the flask uptime.

Ofc you can delay PB until you are feeling safe/not getting oneshot by things..but isn't the "50% more" multiplier contributing to the safety as well? And you can ofc build very defensive, if you want to (Kaom's/Belly) or get the high MS for manually dodging with QotF.

VP? Yeah, but that's actually one of the main reasons to play this build and not a downside.
I'll agree on the other points though. For damage nodes you want to pick as many general nodes as possible (for example..NOT the heavy draw cluster)


The meta is going more in the direction of complete clearspeed crazyness with 3-4k life MF windripper farming with tons of evasion scaling. However, I wouldn't recommend this for people starting out, because you have to know what you're doing and have pretty decent twinked gear to start with.

EDIT: forgot to change the ascendacy in the startertree. Disclaimer this tree is NOT optimal if you already have a lot of currency and/or are very high lvl ! (Lioneye's Fall, upper connection to the duelist area might be better, with drillneck you could think about the piercing cluster for some situations...)

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@Kindergarten: actually PB is quite the default for this build class and perfectly safe/viable with a non-crazy tree. The clear isn't really getting worse but you get that single target going vs bosses (with both barrage+TS you kind of want to stay close for max dps). 50% "more" is a lot..and you generally want to do significant damage to bosses (ideally kill them) within the flask uptime.

Not doubting that but I just started this game. So currently I have just 6 link TS and no barrage as this is cheap and good to farm up to T13 maps. Will get Barrage Setup later.

Given the skilltree he posted - he knows less than me about the game. So I wouldn't recommend Point Blank with this skilltree at all. With additional 5-6 link barrage, VP, LL and good items it should work. It is also in the other Ranger builds included (which are mostly very similar). I don't question that.

But given the skilltree he posted - he will have very bad items, no uberlab (still lacking it too).
And IMO Point Blank isn't the right option at that point. With 2nd barrage 5+ link and a decent skilltree - sure. Especially without life, damage and LL - it won't work, IMO.

Copying endgame builds without the right items is bad. I learned that the hard way by playing the game.

So I'd recommend not taking PB at this point. There are so many things wrong, that PB would be bad at this point - IMO. Still learning and upgrading. PB isn't even included in OT endgame Tree too. Maybe an oversight - dunno - but that is the base build in this thread.

Don't know much about the meta. Still learning. But I can say that his tree is bad. So read it as a beginners perspective.

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Kindergar1en wrote:

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@Kindergarten: actually PB is quite the default for this build class and perfectly safe/viable with a non-crazy tree. The clear isn't really getting worse but you get that single target going vs bosses (with both barrage+TS you kind of want to stay close for max dps). 50% "more" is a lot..and you generally want to do significant damage to bosses (ideally kill them) within the flask uptime.

Not doubting that but I just started this game. So currently I have just 6 link TS and no barrage as this is cheap and good to farm up to T13 maps. Will get Barrage Setup later.

Given the skilltree he posted - he knows less than me about the game. So I wouldn't recommend Point Blank with this skilltree at all. With additional 5-6 link barrage, VP, LL and good items it should work. It is also in the other Ranger builds included (which are mostly very similar). I don't question that.

But given the skilltree he posted - he will have very bad items, no uberlab (still lacking it too).
And IMO Point Blank isn't the right option at that point. With 2nd barrage 5+ link and a decent skilltree - sure. Especially without life, damage and LL - it won't work, IMO.

Copying endgame builds without the right items is bad. I learned that the hard way by playing the game.

So I'd recommend not taking PB at this point. There are so many things wrong, that PB would be bad at this point - IMO. Still learning and upgrading. PB isn't even included in OT endgame Tree too. Maybe an oversight - dunno - but that is the base build in this thread.

Don't know much about the meta. Still learning. But I can say that his tree is bad. So read it as a beginners perspective.

Nah, you're doing well and have a point with PB being somewhat double-edged and him a newer player.

I'd recommend waiting till lvl 80-85ish with it in that case. Personally.. I'd go for it as early as act 4-5 but there are cons.

The point I was trying to make:

Bow builds are maybe in the top-5 for boss killing or single target in general (I guess). But..they're not "innate" boss killers like GC mines or blade vortex. As lvl 80 with perfect tree but some trashy rare 5l + bad rares/flasks at day 2-3 of the league the single target is worse than sunder/ FB totems / what not. And there is a point to use PB to make the single target at least..somewhat viable.

The ceiling is quite high though and makes every upgrade really worthwhile, be it levels, flasks, jewellery or enchants. So for lvl 80 10c you're doing..let's say.. 0.5x the dmg of sunder but lvl 95 50ex 4-5x.

So no matter if PB or not, it's hard to make the build noobfriendly

Thank you very much for your answers @femfahaz, @Kindergar1en, @juerk.
I have taken the time to try to understand everything and I have learned a lot. if it is not annoying I would like to consult you about the following

* I was seeing blasphemy, I found it very interesting to use some of the "marks" as aura, for me it is more efic than to spend two socket with curse + CurseOnHit. I had thought of assass (critical), but that gives me power charge and not of frenzy (like poacher) .. or use assassin for power charge, and blood rage for frenzy maybe?

* if penetration works best, should I search for all elemt-penetr nodes? or just some and look for the ones that improve my elemental damage? .. and with respect to this i remain in doubt about having available in the tree passives that buff the cold attack .. why not focus everything in this damage? or is another element more effective? or a mixture of several? (I've read that fire is better for single-target)

excuse me to ask so much, instead of just following the guide, is that it seems more productive to learn about the mechanics of the game, to be able to make better decisions in the future :D

I can't manage how to play tornado raider build. It has a lot of damage, but no hp, and pretty every boss or rare mob oneshotes me. In all buid i noticed 1 life leech peck (total 0.4 ll) and in hard situations vaal pact can save me. BUT oneshots don't give a chance for leeching :^

Can please somebody help me with my current build? I know its pretty bad, but i can't see any ways being more tenacious, without alot of currency spent.

Many thanks to everybody who will respond to this message!

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shadowpotion wrote:

I can't manage how to play tornado raider build. It has a lot of damage, but no hp, and pretty every boss or rare mob oneshotes me. In all buid i noticed 1 life leech peck (total 0.4 ll) and in hard situations vaal pact can save me. BUT oneshots don't give a chance for leeching :^

Can please somebody help me with my current build? I know its pretty bad, but i can't see any ways being more tenacious, without alot of currency spent.

Many thanks to everybody who will respond to this message!

From OT:

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DON'T GO OVERBOARD ON UNIQUES - Unique items often provide great advantages. Yet they come at a great cost: most of them lack defensive mechanics. Using too many of them WILL often get you killed.

Aim for max life on all items except bow. Depending on gear some exceptions can be made.
Instead of Rat's nest use Starkojas. 90+ life and also nice defense - just a little bit less crit.

You wanna get to 5000+ life (It is hard yes). LL - it was discussed 1 or 2 pages before.
Soulraker or LL nodes. With 4k+ it gets okay, IMO (using QotF though).

Maligaro and Doryani and even really good. If you want to use uniques you have to make up for it on other slots. Try get items with high max life and + strength.

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Phuelo wrote:

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KrunkZ_ZA wrote:

I also want to know this....Since in the guide it seems u need a 4 link blue for the herald ??? but with the gear mentioned its almost impossible to get a 4 link blue...

For off-coloring gear you can use the Artisan's bench and Jewellers orbs. You can simply start with let's say two blue sockets and add a third random socket. If thats a blue one continue with the fourth. If not just remove it and add a third again. With this technique you use Jewellers orbs instead of Chromatics and it's way cheaper this way.

If my explanation was unclear you can search on Youtube for tutorials about off-coloring.

Thanks Sir !!! this will help!

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Hessed wrote:

* I was seeing blasphemy, I found it very interesting to use some of the "marks" as aura, for me it is more efic than to spend two socket with curse + CurseOnHit. I had thought of assass (critical), but that gives me power charge and not of frenzy (like poacher) .. or use assassin for power charge, and blood rage for frenzy maybe?

You would switch Blasphemy for Curse. So I don't see how you save a slot here? Anyways 4 slot helmet, gloves or boots is fine - and those are easily craftable with Vorici.

As you hit the whole screen, Curse seems better to me than a small aura. And Rangers don't have great Aura buffs.

Power charge is still good - because this build relies on crits. The more the better.
You don't get +1 max frenzy from Poachers - you just go faster to max frenzy charges.

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Hessed wrote:

* if penetration works best, should I search for all elemt-penetr nodes? or just some and look for the ones that improve my elemental damage? .. and with respect to this i remain in doubt about having available in the tree passives that buff the cold attack .. why not focus everything in this damage? or is another element more effective? or a mixture of several? (I've read that fire is better for single-target)

Penetration is already include in the OT Tree. Those cold nodes are pretty good.
But it depends on ele conversion - I don't know how this works.

Basic Idea is: phys2light adds 50% conversion. Signal fire would add 50% conversion too (fire then).

So don't know what would happen with 20% cold conversion here. Not using a Signal Fire - so for me those nodes are good (just took the upper ones to get to conversion - skipped the lower ones) Increased chill + more cold damage would still be decent, though - especially with icebite support on curse links.

What I don't know is what happens if you already have 100 (50+50) conversion and add more conversion from Winterspirit. It seams to get spread among the elementals.

However the basic idea seems to be: Get huge phys damge (Harbinger Bow).+Phys applies. Then convert to ele and +ele % applies.

Unfortunatly there is no cold2phys support gem.

Dunno why but I have 77% conversion to cold (with Winter spirit - without 57% on't know where those come from but probably percentage math). If I add Signal Fire in PoB Cold damage goes down - so you probably don't wanna have to much conversion. Don't know the math behind it.

However - without Signal fire those Cold nodes seem to be decent. Maybe change some items to get more out of cold.

Edit: There is an wiki article about conversion. Not so easy to grasp - but the above is in general not wrong. Those cold nodes are decent without Signal fire conversion. Maybe not meta - but ok. You could try to get more cold damage (there was a quiver with it - I think).

But use PoB with your current Char. You'll see what the nodes get you, like DPS gain, Life and so on. Don't think you can plan a tree without items involved - may be if your know everything about the game. And then it still would need testing. Play, import to PoB, know the generell directions and plan 5-10 levels ahead in PoB, switch some things - and so on.