(Updated!) [1.2] EE Ball Lightning/Ice Spear Build with AA/MoM (Cloak of Defiance)

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Jesusaurus wrote:

Ive been running this build for a little bit in beyond in a two person party. I have been running a 4 link with Ice Spear, Cold Pen, LMP and PoC(havent gotten Spell Echo yet). So far I am level 52 and things have been going pretty good. I am about to get EE and looking forward to messing with it as I've never played an EE character before. Currently I am holding off on EB until I can get some armor with more life rolls - currently have 600 ES and not looking forward to losing that with ~1600 life.

Does Cloak of Defiance make a significant difference in terms of survivability? Not sure i'll accumulate enough currency to get it. It looks like its just a quality of life equip to give you more mana with EB and a slight incoming damage reduction, but just wanted to make sure.

Keep in mind the build is in discussion, I will give you two summaries. Vultighjime suggested Faster Cast over Spell Echo beause Echo's second Blast doesn't Freeze thus FC is more effictive for Freez Builds. By the way: Crit Damage was popular use for IS in pre 1.2.

About your first hands on EE; a usual EE build is used with Fireblast (youtube it) beacuse of its 100% efficiency rate. The BL/IS is Build a little bit more tricky, but fun, still very good as far as I have played it.

Your question about EB: It is recommended to wait for it until you have CoD - was mentioned in this thread or in the guide. Because only then you have more EHP and the converted ES to Mana is regenerating faster than ES itself would. It's not needed to sacrifice ES only for mana. The mana without a "Mana shield" shouldn't be an issue with all the mana nodes. Don't level AA too high.

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@Thread, So I have looked through the Crafting Benches, now too. It's sad there is no Dual Lech (like lightning + ice leech). This makes the Ice-variant of this build almost mandatory I assume; We talked about dropping some Ice nodes for additional Critstrike/-Damage to Buff BL a bit at the same time. Any opinions on the Ice-Leech-only-possibility?

Who is using SLower Projectiles (for BL)? I am wondering which Level might be most practical.
I currently stopped it at level 11: 35% Reduced Projectile Speed.
I suggest it depends on the killspeed:
-Slower is good for obvious reasons in the close to mid range. Thus a higher level is more useful for slower killspeed.
-Faster is better for decent killspeed, because If it's too slow it doesn't reach the edge of the screen fast enough to Reset EE. Although for 2-3 hits you won't need the extra EE, anyways.
So what are your experiences?

Ball Lightning for occasional shocks (was mentioned in the thread too)?!
Just an example from: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Talk:Shock
You need about 1% damage of the mobs life to shock for 300ms (w/o passives), even if your BL did 10% damage to a 10k mob. That would be split into 3% (30% effectiveness for each hit), around 830 miliseconds of shock (3 * 276 * modifier) [ms]. Ok so as long as BL is doing the minimum of around 3,5% (1% / 0,30) damage of the mobs life, it will trigger a very short shock (300 ms) which is refreshed by every small strike. We can actually have nice extra damage to IS - when we manage to hit mobs with IS while BL is flying through them. What do you think?

edited:
-I meant Vultighjime instead of Sven and edited it.
-mentioned: Faster Cast for Perma-Freeze, which is the more important point I didn´'t mention before.

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rusher21 wrote:

Who is using SLower Projectiles (for BL)? I am wondering which Level might be most practical.
I currently stopped it at level 11: 35% Reduced Projectile Speed.
I suggest it depends on the killspeed:
-Slower is good for obvious reasons in the close to mid range. Thus a higher level is more useful for slower killspeed.
-Faster is better for decent killspeed, because If it's too slow it doesn't reach the edge of the screen fast enough to Reset EE. Although for 2-3 hits you won't need the extra EE, anyways.
So what are your experiences?

I have been leveling it as much as I can. I think mine is around level 16. I like it going slower. It still reaches just about the edge of the screen (thought a little slower). In most cases I end up with Ice Spear hitting once, then Ball Lightning entering and having them alternate. I'm level 67, and my clear speed is pretty fast right now. I'm also running Spell Echo (not Faster Casting). My DPS is around 1300 tooltip, but with EE and Cold Penetration I have to imagine it's much higher than that.

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rusher21 wrote:

Ball Lightning for occasional shocks (was mentioned in the thread too)?!
Just an example from: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Talk:Shock
You need about 1% damage of the mobs life to shock for 300ms (w/o passives), even if your BL did 10% damage to a 10k mob. That would be split into 3% (30% effectiveness for each hit), around 830 miliseconds of shock (3 * 276 * modifier) [ms]. Ok so as long as BL is doing the minimum of around 3,5% (1% / 0,30) damage of the mobs life, it will trigger a very short shock (300 ms) which is refreshed by every small strike. We can actually have nice extra damage to IS - when we manage to hit mobs with IS while BL is flying through them. What do you think?

I've just hit the point where I'm grabbing crit nodes. I decided to try this before the cold variant. I've only grabbed one cluster so far, so I can't say how well it works yet. I like that crit buffs both Ball Lightning and Ice Spear, though my Ball Lightning DPS is far below my Ice Spear already just because of links (Ball Lightning is only about 400dps tooltip).

Thanks for your comments and experience.
I agree Spell Echo is really nice with EE + BL! ('Didn't know 2nd hit will proc EE)
I agree on Slower Projectiles maxing, when I have it, why not max it (afaic).
Are you using Shield or Dualwield?
~edit: removed some questions. ~

By the way I have been reading some pre 1.2 guides for Ice Spear and they mostly mentioned how great IS is with PC and Crit Damage, since the instant 6-7 charges. Anyways you have suggested me a solution already. I might aswell share my socket-shedule trying to get: PCoC on Damage taken, only Tempest Shield is left out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z9hgbXrBZU2ry_xlPEDpYHkf1CqMcTdqbjq2pq5Lkgo/edit?usp=sharing
Crticism welcome.
I have a Suggestion: Use Frostbite as Curse? In a Ring for example. (it's in the shedule already)

What do you think of 1-Ele-Leech via Crafts? Do you think it is fair? It guides towards 1-ele buuilds, imo.

How do you rate Quality-Ice Spear? 60% faster travel speed of Ice Spear with %Slower Projectile speed of BL: Is it hurting the build or useful.
Imo
-Pro:
IS reaches the edge of the screen faster to support and get support from an ongoing BL.
-Con:
Your first edge-hits work against Slower Projectiles from BL and you might hit monsters that aren't "EEed" yet.
Incase you are using knockback on BL , the chance to knockback and push a mob into the crit-range of IS is reduced (you mentioned Knockback on a previous page)

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rusher21 wrote:

Thanks for your comments and experience.
I agree Spell Echo is really nice with EE + BL! ('Didn't know 2nd hit will proc EE)
I agree on Slower Projectiles maxing, when I have it, why not max it (afaic).
Are you using Shield or Dualwield?
~edit: removed some questions. ~

By the way I have been reading some pre 1.2 guides for Ice Spear and they mostly mentioned how great IS is with PC and Crit Damage, since the instant 6-7 charges. Anyways you have suggested me a solution already. I might aswell share my socket-shedule trying to get: PCoC on Damage taken, only Tempest Shield is left out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z9hgbXrBZU2ry_xlPEDpYHkf1CqMcTdqbjq2pq5Lkgo/edit?usp=sharing
Crticism welcome.
I have a Suggestion: Use Frostbite as Curse? In a Ring for example. (it's in the shedule already)

What do you think of 1-Ele-Leech via Crafts? Do you think it is fair? It guides towards 1-ele buuilds, imo.

How do you rate Quality-Ice Spear? 60% faster travel speed of Ice Spear with %Slower Projectile speed of BL: Is it hurting the build or useful.
Imo
-Pro:
IS reaches the edge of the screen faster to support and get support from an ongoing BL.
-Con:
Your first edge-hits work against Slower Projectiles from BL and you might hit monsters that aren't "EEed" yet.
Incase you are using knockback on BL , the chance to knockback and push a mob into the crit-range of IS is reduced (you mentioned Knockback on a previous page)

So here's where I'm at... I'm level 71 and I have no leech at all right now. I can't afford a Cloak of Defiance yet, so I haven't even taken EB. I only have a 4L Ice Spear (LMP/Cold Pen/Spell Echo) and 3L Ball Lightning (Slower Proj/Inc AoE). I can actually survive pretty well with just potions because of the freezing/chill. I'm saving as fast as I can to get a Cloak of Defiance and 5L+ it and my Catarina is approaching level 6 now so I can finally get Cold Leech soon.

I think 1% Cold Leech might be enough. We don't really need leech on the Ball Lightning because the hits are so small and we'll be spamming Ice Spear plenty.

I have been running with a Frostbite slotted and I use it occasionally... mostly for rares/bosses and occasionally a cold resist blue pack. It's nice but I can kill most things quick enough without it.

I have a 7% quality Ice Spear at the moment. I like the increased speed. It might hit before Ball Lightning at first but that's still at normal damage, then Ball Lightning shows up and I can get several more hits in. The important thing is that because the projectiles are faster the later casts that might make it after Ball Lightning is gone can now make it just in time, so it balances out. I can average 4-6 hits with Ice Spear per Ball Lightning.

So, here's hoping I can get a CoD this weekend, 5L+ it, and test the "final" version of this build. I've been playing mostly self found as I save currency for the Cloak, which is why this is taking a bit longer than expected to get to the final version (and why some of my gear below is not exactly optimal). Also, I would like to get some more cast speed on items because my cast times still feel slower than I'd like.

For reference, this is my current setup:

nice,

so AA with faster cast, Do you think it's very important? No doubt FC is very good to turn it on/off. I have forgotten you can do it.

could you have a look at my Socket plan? Is 2 blue/2 red gloves something good to aim for? because crafting is always an invenstment, and much more so for low experienced people :)

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rusher21 wrote:

nice,

so AA with faster cast. Do you think it's very important? No doubt FC is very good to turn it on/off.

could you have a look at my Socket plan? Is 2 blue/2 red gloves something good to aim for? because crafting is always an invenstment, and more so for low experienced people :)

The only reason I have AA linked to faster cast right now is because I'm trying to level the faster casting for some testing (I want to swap Spell Echo/Faster Casting to see DPS differences, but I think Spell Echo is the way to go) and that seemed like a good socket for now. ;) There's no need to link AA to anything.

Your socket plan looks pretty good to me. That's pretty much what I'm aiming for, with the only difference being that my plan is to test these 2 Ball Lightning setups:
BL->Inc AoE->Slower Projectiles->Knockback
BL->Spell Totem->LMP->Inc AoE

I haven't decided on Spell Totem or Knockback yet. I've got a Spell Totem gem leveling up in my offset right now for testing when I get the required 4L (BBRG). Both setups are BBRG so I can easily swap back and forth for testing as well. I don't think you need LMP with self cast because you can aim it where you aim your ice spears.

Right, I wondered about LMP, too. Yet at the end of its range it splits more. Anyways I removed it now, too.

I tested FC vs Spell Echo: I mainly see a difference in Mana cost and Freeze.
The Mana cost with FC are alot higher, but you freeze alot more. (since the second hits do not freeze)
With Spell Echo there is less freeze, but a bit more damage. A precise DPS-difference would be interesting though, although I think the more cast speed you have on your gear the more the difference sinks - so mana/freeze is the point from my experience.


With Totem Have you considered GMP? ~ why not GMP?


Have you considered the new 1.2 Patch Mind Barrier? 8% Absolute Block vs Spells, so it helps vs Reflect. (If anything very late in the game I assume)

What do you think of swapping Molten Shell with Enduring Cry? It could be more offensive since even mobs close by would have more EE since it would trigger fairly often. And BL has the best hit ratio on monster on the way (that also get chilled/freezed). Downside is Enduring Cry would trigger less often but stronger also strenghtening Immortal Call!


How could I manage to get 4 Links dedicated to Cwdt and PC creation?
-Sacrifice Increased Duration for Endurance Charge?
Background: I thought of Cwdt(lvl 1) - IS (lvl5) - LMP (lvl 20) - PCoC (lvl 20), because even after a Crit only 50% give a PC.


ps: Someone recently released another 1.2.1 EB / MoM / AA build with Ball Lightning. There might be some good information:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/959508/page/1
For me personally the 5% Buff looks interesting:
Worth.. about 1.2 level speaking of Arctic armour + without add. mana drain
..about 1 level speaking of Clarity + no extra mana reservation
..and about 2 levels speaking of Purity of Ice - however no extra Maxres (at least very low).

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rusher21 wrote:

Right, I wondered about LMP, too. Yet at the end of its range it splits more. Anyways I removed it now, too.

I tested FC vs Spell Echo: I mainly see a difference in Mana cost and Freeze.
The Mana cost with FC are alot higher, but you freeze alot more. (since the second hits do not freeze)
With Spell Echo there is less freeze, but a bit more damage. A precise DPS-difference would be interesting though, although I think the more cast speed you have on your gear the more the difference sinks - so mana/freeze is the point from my experience.

Yeah, that's pretty much the difference... more overall DPS with less freeze on Spell Echo. I just want to try it out to see if the difference is enough for me to actually use faster casting or not.

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With Totem Have you considered GMP? ~ why not GMP?

Oops, you are right. GMP would be better with Spell Totem. I'm just so used to using LMP for things that I put that instead. ;)

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Have you considered the new 1.2 Patch Mind Barrier? 8% Absolute Block vs Spells, so it helps vs Reflect. (If anything very late in the game I assume)

I've gone back and forth on this a couple times. I really like that node, but I'm not sure where to drop points and I'm not sure how much it's worth it since we've already got AA/MoM. If AA/MoM doesn't seem like enough I'll consider grabbing that.

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What do you think of swapping Molten Shell with Enduring Cry? It could be more offensive since even mobs close by would have more EE since it would trigger fairly often. And BL has the best hit ratio on monster on the way (that also get chilled/freezed). Downside is Enduring Cry would trigger less often but stronger also strenghtening Immortal Call!

I've never figured out the ideal levels for CWDT. Typically I just use level 1 CWDT for almost everything. Most things seem to benefit more from proccing more frequently rather than for larger (including Immortal Call since the increase per level is fairly minor). I've heard that level 4ish CWDT is actually a pretty good balance I think? Might be worth messing around with that.

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How could I manage to get 4 Links dedicated to Cwdt and PC creation?
-Sacrifice Increased Duration for Endurance Charge?
Background: I thought of Cwdt(lvl 1) - IS (lvl5) - LMP (lvl 20) - PCoC (lvl 20), because even after a Crit only 50% give a PC.

I'm honestly not sure how PCoC works with LMP. I thought all 3 projectiles count as one cast and triggered crit together. Does PCoC have a chance to proc on each projectile or only once per cast?

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Svenn wrote:

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How could I manage to get 4 Links dedicated to Cwdt and PC creation? [...]

I'm honestly not sure how PCoC works with LMP. I thought all 3 projectiles count as one cast and triggered crit together. Does PCoC have a chance to proc on each projectile or only once per cast?

Yes, I didn't want to say it would; Max one pc, but every projectile has an individual chance to trigger the PC. I thought to make that chance for a PC higher, btw with GMP then.

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Svenn wrote:

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What do you think of swapping Molten Shell with Enduring Cry? [...]

I've never figured out the ideal levels for CWDT. Typically I just use level 1 CWDT for almost everything. Most things seem to benefit more from proccing more frequently rather than for larger (including Immortal Call since the increase per level is fairly minor).

The person in the Link - Version2: BL with EB + MoM - uses:

- CWDT:
4L: Cast When Damage Taken (lvl 7) - Enduring Cry (lvl 9) - Immortal Call (lvl 8) - Enfeeble (lvl 9)

I thought about the reasoning: It's about 100 strength requirements; 98 str for Immortal Call on lvl 8. By the way: He copied it from Version 1 BL with CI. (didn't add AA for example).

IdK what's best, neither.

I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for my take on this build. I am using 4L ice spear-faster casting-pcoc-LMP, 4L reduced mana-AA-clarity-discipline, 4L Ball lightning-inc aoe-knockback-slower projectile, and 4L raise Zombie - minion health - minion resistance - minion speed. I have CoD, trying to get it 6S5L, and when I do, should I go with cold pen on ice spear or Inc critical damage?
Also, was considering swapping out the minions for cwdt - immortal call- enduring cry and one more. I like the zombies mostly, but the are dead at the beginning of boss fights. What else should I link with cwdt?
That still leaves gem slots on my wand and shield that I can put things into if anyone has suggestions for that.
I am Lvl 74 if it matters