Auras are WAY overpowered: Remove reservation, cap them like totems and save blood magic!

^ Exactly, however I would argue that excess regen is largely irrelevant as you usually only build just enough to sustain indefinite spamming, and eventually to compensate for map mods; any more than that is just a consequence of over speccing. But in order to sustain skill spammage, you need a mana pool far in excess of your mana cost, to actually get that base regen. Once you have it, there is nothing to do with it except reserve auras <-- a design flaw, imo. As I said a few pages back the issue is much more systemic than just auras. I don't think it'd be impossible though. There are a few realistic steps that could be taken to improve resource management (and subsequently auras):
~small flat mana regen appended to flat life regen item mods
~LGoH for spells (edit: value on gem * damage effectiveness %)
~some more support for MGoK, and possibly oH/crit
~leech/regen (life and mana) from unreserved pool
~subsequent numerical tweaks
~and of course real support options for auras to balance powerful effects against socket/link scarcity.

The first three I think are particularly important, because they lend to mana solutions that do not inherently blow max mana potentials out of the water.

Oh, they could do all kinds of things, I never said resource management is beyond saving, however there's no way they'll go deep enough to really fix it and that, as they say, is that.

You know, if our mana balance over time could be negative, then mana pool size would be relevant, or 'how many skills can I pump out before it goes dry', however it's too easy to get enough mana back either through leech or regen so it's completely irrelevant. Natural mana regen being based on mana pool size is another mechanic that ensures we have a big mana pool we don't know what to do with, it's as useless as a third testicle, so using an aura is no sacrifice, you get its benefit essentially for free.

For instance, Dragon Age games handle mana reservation well, if you reserve too much you will utterly cripple your mage or warrior. There is no way to make your mana balance positive over the course of battle, you can only make it 'less negative', therefore size matters :)

In Titan Quest your mana balance also tends to be negative, if you have enough pool and regen to rotate your main skills a couple of times per a moderate-length encounter you're satisfied, it will refill as you sift through loot and run to the next one. For big encounters and bosses you use flasks and there are also enemies that can drain your mana and auras that penalize mana regen deactivate if you run out of mana. It makes for a much more dynamic in-battle approach to resources.

In PoE mana is a concern only when setting up your character, it's a non-factor during a battle. Properly supported skills just cost too much mana to be sustainable on pool size with regen between battles so they made it real easy to attain positive mana balance and spam your skills indefinitely. It's fascinating how much simple resource management affects gameplay flow, in TQ you try to place those few spells where it counts and in PoE you try to make the battlefield a bullet hell shooter.

The thing is, I don't think this was an intentional design choice, as we can see on some older skills, concepts and mechanics like ES regen. The game most likely got out of hand and ended up like this, that's why it's so hard to fix, many factors led to it and it's tricky to see at which point exactly it went wrong.

I totally disagree with Raics and I wonder if you even play as a strength aligned character at all?

You make it sounds like it takes no effort at all to get enough mana for auras and to get enough life or mana regen to sustain you skills.

Let me tell you that this might be the case in end game but most definitely not while playing towards end game as a strength aligned character.

It does take effort and investment. For example you cannot just use the BM support on you active skills because you will need enough life and life regen. Then you need to get the right sockets and links to run BM on all your skills and if you can't you also need enough mana regen to sustain those.
Besides that you know that strenght aligned characters don't have a lot of mana to begin with and it does take effort to get that. You might be able to run 2 auras with quite a bit of effort and 3 auras in end game.

My character is now in cruel and can barely run 2 auras, using BM on my active skills, with a couple of auras nodes and with quite a lot of +mana on my gear. Mana is something I'm focussing on thus building for and being able to run 2/3 auras doing so as a common strenght alligned character build seems ok to me.

Also I don't have a problem with blue aligned character setup with aura nodes and a lot of mana to stack auras (as long as they're not snapshotting). This is why they are aligned to blue and thus mana.

I honestly still think that this topic and also this topic posted by the same user for that matter: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/975850
Are not about how auras should change, how resource management should change, how CoE or Shavs should change or how CoC should change. The problem in my opinion is that ST gives these kind of builds the option to throw melee weapons around. Actually the same goes for any melee build...

BTW: I don't see how it helps to make other support gems work with auras, doesnt that only make them stronger? I really need the be able to attach BM to my auras too.

"

Startkabels wrote:

I totally disagree with Raics

You're absolutely free to do so.

"

Startkabels wrote:

BTW: I don't see how it helps to make other support gems work with auras, doesnt that only make them stronger? I really need the be able to attach BM to my auras too.

Reduce base reservation costs, reduce base effects, and implement meaningful supports such that the net effect is a buff with proper resource investment (including sockets and supports), a nerf with an improper strategy (just RM all the things), but in any case the "right" solution is not so straight forward as "stack as much x as possible and have all the things." They will be stronger, but more diverse and their strength will be justified by an appropriate amount of resource investment (those sockets again).

Also I never had a problem with mana on Str characters. Focus on +mana and %regen on jewelry while leveling up, run BMS + Clarity + RM and a hybrid flask or two by end game. The fact that Clarity still has a flat reservation cost tells me it's meant to be reserved on life, and it works well.

"

raics wrote:

- before:
40% aura + alpha's howl
40% * 0,92 = 36%

- after
60% aura + 41% reduced reservation + alpha's howl
60% * 0,51 = 30%

There was 20% reduced reservation available in the tree before. Also, many of the auras which are 60% now were a flat amount before.
40% aura + Alpha's Howl + 20% reduced reservation = 40% * .72 = ~29%

That said, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Anger and Wrath were 164 mana each. Anger did 43% of its current damage and Wrath did 62% of its current damage. However, these could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Grace was 213 mana reserved and the maximum Evasion bonus was 1344. However, this could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Discipline was 215 mana reserved for 212 Energy Shield. However, this could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Purity of Fire/Ice/Lightning did not exist. Instead, Purity of Elements (then Purity) provided +4% to maximum Fire, Ice, and Lightning resistances for 40% reservation and literally everyone (not blood magic) used it. However, this could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Hatred was 30% mana reservation and the damage was 25%, or 69% of what it currently is. However, this could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Determination and Haste went from 40% to 60% and otherwise stayed nearly same. Clarity and Vitality were nearly identical. However, these could not be scaled (i.e. multiplicatively doubled) with aura effectiveness nodes. You instead could only get 30% from Inner Force.

Note that Inner Force was extremely popular at the time and nerfed to 18%, then buffed to 21%.

Looking through everything which was changed, it's clear the damage available from auras was the biggest buff and splitting up the resistance auras was technically a nerf except in the case of stacking a single resist (for RF).

This all goes back to Anger and Wrath being the problem. GGG only needs to address Anger and Wrath. No other auras exist which make stacking aura nodes for the multiplicative bonus a no-brainer (with the exception of Purity of Fire for a single build). This will only effect the overpowered builds which use Anger and Wrath as a primary source of damage and will do nothing to change other builds which do not.

"

mark1030 wrote:

October 23, 2013. That's the day Auras became the way they are today. If they were so overpowered and broken, why did it take so long before people started whining about them? Surely something so broken would have caused immediate QQing.

Hence, the result was immediate QQing. Lots of it. Seriously, if you asked me "what were people QQing about immediately after release?" my answer would be "CWDT and auras." To which somber minds, such as my own, replied to the aura bit: you haven't even had a chance to play with this change, give it some time. So they gave it some time.

And then here we are again, with a slightly different flavor of essentially the same problem.

This is why, unlike some in this thread, I'm going deeper than simply "this needs a nerf" or "this needs a boost," and instead trying to access fundamentals (and fundamental flaws). Don't get me wrong; I actually do think part of the problem with auras in beta was that they were entirely build-independent, so the changes to the passive tree, while perhaps not perfectly balanced, were nevertheless a step in the right direction. Perhaps not the most important step in the right direction among available steps in the right direction, but a step in the right direction nevertheless.

But it wasn't enough. Which means a new strategy is required.

In terms of my assessment of what the fundamental issue is, I have at least one person here who seems to both understand and agree...

"

CanHasPants wrote:

You're fine with the status quo and that's great. But Scrotie's comment really hit's the nail on the head. Reduced Mana is really like the active skill, and which auras you choose are like the support gems for it. It's totally backwards and should change, because PoE would be better for it. Real support options and managing reservation costs beyond just reducing them would give players the choice to fine tune quantity and effect versus their expendable mana and most importantly sockets. Auras could be right powerful then, but not OP, because there's an actual cost besides just a 4L and RM.

So, um, how about discussing some possible ways to support auras? Because I think part of the reason this doesn't get traction is that people have trouble imagining aura supports which aren't Reduced Mana.
Oh, and one last thing I'd like to clarify in light of the thread title... these changes wouldn't necessarily make auras less overpowered. They'd still be powerful, and that's fine; they might even become more powerful. The problem with auras, as I see it, isn't that they are OP, it's that they are boring and predictable and OP, which means you feel "forced" to partake in boring and predictable shit. Such shit isn't good for a game, so let's try to make it more interesting and unpredictable.

Wrath - flat damage (60% of current)
Hatred - % of physical added (70% of current)
Anger - More fire damage with weapons (64% at level 20 with all aura points)

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That works really well, because wrath benefits fast weapons and the corresponding node is in dagger area, or fast weapon area, it's about shock stacking and needs many attacks for good usage.

Hatred works for plain old physical builds, and there it no proper way to really gain cold damage unless you made it flat like wrath. It is however so defensively powerful you need a good weapon to support it, and it has its niche.

Anger is fire, and fire has several pathways of causing fire damage. You can go added fire damage, or you can go avatar of fire, probably more things. If one aura had to be "more" damage, then it should be fire.

That way all auras serve a different purpose, and are unique, overall nerfing mindless aura stacking. Now you need a build to match it.

I made a new suggestion here.

Your post is perfectly describing that the underlying issue for your concern is in fact ST.

It's not ST either. Not really.

The sad truth is: it doesn't really matter what the Anger buff is, or what the Wrath buff is. Can you pay for the reservation? Okay then, you're getting whatever the buff is. Messing around with the buffs exclusively — unless you actually nerf something into the ground — isn't going to change which auras players run, or why.

What we need is meaningful choice in auras which leads to variable costs for any one individual aura.