I know more people that left because PoE is easy.

° If a mod sees this, I would like to know if listing people that left and their reason would be name and shame. [Shouldn't be, if you believe they would be okay for you to do so ~support]

Bottom line, I had my friends list pretty full going into OB, patch after patch people were logging in less or not at all. Of the ones that did complain, they were leaving because the game was becoming less and less challenging. There were rage quits over 6 linking, from those doing it wrong, or chaos spam crafting gear. These were frustrations caused by the player itself. I can list the dumbing down by amount of complaints I heard

1. Legacy items: the friends that played in the permanent leagues, this was the #1 thing that came up constantly. Legacy items are items that were deemed "too powerful", so let's let them stay to trivialize content.

2. Simplified Skill Tree: this one didn't lose many players, but was a top complaint. And the tree got even worse with the addition of the scion. The tree looks like it gives plenty of options, but nodes are carefully placed creating an illusion of choice. Compare builds in the build forum and notice the paths are generally the same to HP/ES with minor detours to make them "unique"

3. Map drops: Even before cartographers were introduced maps were buffed where you could bounce 75-78 maps, or chain 77 and 78 in groups. This end game content was viewed as a bonus or reward to people that kept going at those 70's, building pools. Now you can just keep running your highest maps with + pack size and no "difficult" mods. Sure, you could run difficult maps to create your own challenge, but if the reward for minimum effort is sufficient, why bother? It was once said it should take 6+ months to hit 100, now we have people doing it in 2. This lost quite a few as well.

4. Boss loot buffs: Almost made me leave, once you overlevel bosses you should start getting a rarity penalty. The attraction of a loot pinyata you can bully repeatedly for great gear is ridiculous. There is 0 risk and great rewards, where in comparison you could risk dying in a difficult map with hindering/annoying mods and loot the equivalent of a single boss run, or do 5+ boss runs the time it takes to clear it. This risk/reward really needs to be flipped around. There is no reason for 66-68 maps with this situation, they only provide chisel recipe fodder.

5. Eternal Orbs: Combined with legacy items, the friends left who play, don't play permanent leagues. Even though expensive, these allowed players to brute force perfect items. This also exponentially increased the wealth of those already wealthy via mirror fees. Once perfect items exist, there is no reason to craft your own when you can just save for perfection.

6. Trade indexers: Allowing these to poll the forums offering an auction house environment via buyouts and easier to track c/o's with the only stipulation that you need to be online. From the information we got regarding improvements allowing players to trade through the website, combined with indexers, players can flip on the go. Indexers single handedly ruin the sense of progress on use, especially combined with #7.

7. Base item craft buff: Not sure when or what was adjusted, but there was a change that occurred where a nice rare wouldn't be outdone by a white item of reasonable higher level. Now you can find a nice level 52 plated maul and be using that in endgame maps, or a level 28 chest with good rolls in act 1 merciless. While it seemed like a good idea at the time, players cheered similar to the unique buffs coming soon, I can safely say this makes progression feel sluggish and unrewarding the most. Players see their level 30 sword slashing away in a level 50 area, feel they aren't progressing and turn to the indexers.

8. 6 link buffs: Even before they occurred we had a good discussion going in closed beta that 6 linking was far too easy. A 6l was a God tier item, it didn't matter the base, the extra support was such a boost base stats didn't matter. I remember davros having the single 6L sunplate on the server, it was a low base which was before the item level boosts from #7. But the chest was godly. Builds didn't even have a 6L suggestion. I'm not sure what happened, but eventually the idea behind a 6L being almost unreachable became a "problem", people complaining using 100's of fusings, 1000's, still not getting PERFECT links. Eventually GGG caved, buffed the odds, gave us a 6L unique (which shouldn't have been allowed to exist), and all this did was fuel more entitlement, more complaining and now an upcoming buff to progress to a 6L, which is what the hell many of us though the eternal orbs were for!

9. Upcoming unique "buff": This change is going to turn out exactly like the base item situation. People will be miserable, wondering why the mid/high tier items they find put them even further from the ultra rare ones. They will find twice as many sellable uniques they don't need. At least finding an Alphas or Rise of the Phoenix FEELS like progression, even if you don't need it. These are as close to the top tier you can currently get, this change the individual drops in comparison that much further away. If you find a single $100 bill, it is a much better feeling than finding a $50 now and $50 later. Especially when trying to buy a $10,000 car. This will make the good drops easier to find, but less rewarding, and pushing more trade onto players.

If a friend were to ask me to recommend a "hardcore" ARPG, given the path GGG is going down trying to please everyone, I would not recommend it. This is the sad reality. People will always leave over how difficult things are, but will also leave over how non-complex, easy and true to its word it is. Personally, I have no hard feelings towards GGG, I am surprised they resisted as long as they did on certain things.

Before you light your Molotov's, I have accepted and dealt with each of those individually, 2 of which I was %100 on board with until they were combined. I don't consider myself an elitist, even though I anticipate the accusation, I play games to be challenged by the game, not creating my own challenges within it.

This will be the 2nd game (HoN was first) where I was presented a vision and in the end let down. Both times, players installed the games knowing they were "hardcore" for the genres, yet still felt the need to push both into what they weren't intended to be, or at least what I was told it would be.

To GGG: If you want a fantastic example of where you are heading talk to Marc Deforest, owner of S2 Games (Heroes of Newerth). He tried pleasing everyone, screwed his loyal customers, in doing so, lost the hardcore crowd to Dota 2 AND the casual crowd to League of Legends. Now scrounging for anything he can, working on Strife, an even more casual MOBA (more so than LoL), since his decisions killed HoN.

This is in the wrong section I think, probably should be in feedback, but I am not re-typing this again. At least for myself, the only reason I'm here eating your carrots, when you told me green beans is because there's no more food in the pantry, but I'm about to go grocery shopping.


tl;dr: Most of my friends list quit over how simple and easy PoE has become and NOT due to progression, gear checks, gated content or RNG.

"

Worldbreaker wrote:

If a friend were to ask me to recommend a "hardcore" ARPG, given the path GGG is going down trying to please everyone, I would not recommend it.

What would you recommend, and why?

"

Worldbreaker wrote:

*snip*

hy·per·bo·le [hahy-pur-buh-lee]
noun Rhetoric.

1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

I know more people that left on my friend's list because PoE is too unrewarding. Unless either of can provide concrete evidence, we're just going to have to assume it's an even split.

Such a lol cry thread, much nub friends

1) that's the problem with gear-check-based design: easy if uber-geared. Insane and unfair otherwise.
2) please tell me what I'm doing wrong, because after almost 2k hours and all possible content, I don't know what a 6-link is. Should I blow on the Fusings?
3) the tree is the best damn thing to happen in aRPG in recent years, and a main reason why I'm still playing.
4) boss loot is a huge leap towards risk/reward and encouraging players to accept challenges, but I understand you like grinding barrels and cowering from big bad bosses.
5) what's an "Eternal Orb"?
6) I go by the "fuck trade" rule, but then RNG fucks me and forces me to go trade - and indexers are a great help, when I do.

Note: numbers do not match yours. Skipped a few because agreed or had nothing to comment.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

"8. 6 link buffs: Even before they occurred we had a good discussion going in closed beta that 6 linking was far too easy. A 6l was a God tier item, it didn't matter the base, the extra support was such a boost base stats didn't matter. I remember davros having the single 6L sunplate on the server"

...Did you even re-read this after writing it?

Yes, this was right after a wipe. 2 different places in the timeline.

"Q___Q, pls gibe lvl 100 and 6L, omg I paly 2 months and no 6L, dis game is RNG gated :-\." - PoE forums in shorts.

The more I play, they more I understand that this game ain't all that hard at all. It has problems, but not getting 6L is not a problem. People feeling need to be entitled - root of all problems.

I never had 6L, I dropped total of maybe 5Exalts (and I'm playing for like 2years now). And I WANT them - and because of that I will PLAY THE ACTUAL game, and not Q____Q on forums that I can't drop it.

I do not agree to all points tho - trade getting simplified by indexers is far from being a bad thing. Trade makes this game more "reliable" in terms of progression. You don't find gear for yourself, but you will find SOMETHING - be it orbs or gear. Actually, if game had something like in-game indexer, it would have made things easier for casual gamers, and wouldn't affect end-game play in a such a great way.

tl;dr Q_Q

"

johnKeys wrote:

3) the tree is the best damn thing to happen in aRPG in recent years, and a main reason why I'm still playing.

Yup

"

syrioforel wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

3) the tree is the best damn thing to happen in aRPG in recent years, and a main reason why I'm still playing.

Yup

The tree was FAR superior before they forced classes down two paths. The idea is great, but it is becoming more like the linear "tree" from d2.

"

rrtson wrote:

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

I know more people that left on my friend's list because PoE is too unrewarding. Unless either of can provide concrete evidence, we're just going to have to assume it's an even split.

I'm fine with that, my list was filled with players from what PoE was, and was told to be, not what it has become, or what players make it become.