Comprehensive CoC Analysis - 1.2 Theorycrafting
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The content below is for 1.1.5. 1.2 Theorycrafting discussion starts here
Since starting Path of Exile around mid-domination league, I've tried out many different kinds of builds. In the end though, I stick with the philosophy that Path of Exile is first and foremost a game and that games are played to have fun. There's one kind of build that I've always had the most fun with: Cast on Crit. Browsing through the forums, I see a lot of different kinds of Cast on Crit builds posted, but none with a comprehensive analysis of the cast on crit playstyle. As such, I will take a moment and discuss the pros and cons of various considerations of cast on crit builds, followed by the build of my most recent Cast on Crit character.
Comprehensive Cast on Crit Analysis
I, for one, believe that one of the largest components of this game in theorycrafting builds, but to do so, one needs a good understanding of the game and its mechanics. Of course, feel free to contest or add to anything I have to say in this section, as I'm writing most of this off the top of my head.
A little commentary on party play
I really hate how many parties do not like having a CoC character around. This is due two primary factors.
Graphical lag
This is the biggest problem. Not everyone plays PoE on a high-end Windows machine, and we have to realize this. Having a CoC discharger on the screen give serious graphical lag spikes when continuously discharging. This is annoying, even for me on reasonably high-end machine. You can lag people into dying, crash clients, or even whole maps at a time.
Self-centered playstyle
Usually with a CoC build, you aim to blow up mobs with flashy animations, and not much else. This really doesn't bring too much to the party. Also, due to the nature of CoC builds, your dps is very reliant on how many targets you can hit. This makes you want to run ahead of the group, and hit things before others get there. This can be bad for you, as it can lead to untimely deaths.
What is CoC?
CoC refers to the Cast on Critical Strike support gem. The way it works: the gem needs to be linked to an 'attack' gem (or more than one, but that'd be a waste) and one or more 'spell' gems. 'Landing' a critical strike with the linked attack will have a chance of triggering any linked spells to be cast at instant speed. Now, what does it mean to 'land' a critical strike. The way critical strikes works in PoE is: whenever you perform an action, that is to say, click a button to use an attack, whether or not the action critically strikes is rolled right then and there, and not rerolled. This means that, per action, every hit under that same action will crit or will not crit, depending on what you just rolled. That means if you throw 5 daggers into a pack of 50 mobs, or cyclone, or molten strike with multistrike, ALL of your hits with that one action will either ALL crit or ALL not crit. Accuracy is a separate issue, and is rolled per hit. When your attack actually comes in contact with a mob, whether or not your attack lands is rolled at that time. Furthermore, yet another roll happens if you pass those 2 rolls: a chance for the mob to evade your critical hit, making it a non-critical hit instead, at the same rate as that of your chance to hit said mob. The exception to all this is the critical weakness curse, which has a 5-10% chance to crit modifier on it. This roll happens on hit, and only applies if you are about to successfully land a non-critical hit. (This is what I've been told a long time ago on general chat and can't find a reference for it. If anyone can find evidence supporting or contradicting this, please post it.)
Critical Strike Chance vs Accuracy
Generally speaking, crit chance adds more to the consistency of damage in a CoC build, while accuracy adds to the raw damage of a CoC build. Both are important, and should not be neglected. In terms of theoretically landing crits: " In terms of math, increasing your chance to hit improves your chance land a critical hit more than increasing your chance to crit. However, in situations where landing crits could mean life or death, your critical hit chance, though not as mathematically important, shines above your accuracy. This is because of how crits are rolled per ACTION while hits are rolled per HIT, briefly explained above. In my build below, I wouldn't dare call such a build a tank if I didn't have capped crit chance on it.
For those who want to try CoC for the first time
Welcome to the dark side. Here's a few things you should know. CoC generally makes for fairly flimsy characters. This means that you shouldn't expect to survive too long in hardcore leagues. However, in terms of dps for its cost, CoC builds are amongst the best. The general concept for most CoC builds is to land as many critical strikes with your weapon as possible, with each hit generating a possibility of triggering a cast of your supported spells. These spells are cast instantly, so how often you cast them scales off of your attack speed, rather than cast speed. These spells, however, still benefit from whatever else would usually benefit them: i.e. spell damage, elemental damage, auras, charges, etc. Often, your biggest enemy will be yourself. With little defensive options, an poorly planned CoC build will one-shot itself into a stray reflect pack, or a few lightning thorns mobs.
General leveling
This game is fairly easy in Normal and early Cruel. Refer to other guides if you're having trouble there. Your typical CoC build has enough passive points to be "enabled" around late cruel to early merciless, around which time, you're free to slot in CoC. How early, I'd say, is entirely up to you. I typically start actually using my CoC attack at around merciless ledge.
Local vs Global and More vs Increased
Basic knowledge
Local crit refers to the %crit increase mod which occurs on a weapon.
Global crit refers to any %crit increase that occurs on other pieces of gear, and in the passive tree. The keywords "Increased" and "Decreased" refer to an additive change in value. The keywords "More" and "Less" refer to a multiplicative change in value. Chance to critically strike with a weapon: " The following sections will be divided by the three different, what I would call, primary considerations, when creating a Cast on Crit build, in the order in which they 'should' be considered in. These can be used in any combination, allowing you the liberty of creativity! :D
Weapon
Wand ++Highest base crit chances. +Ranged +DW or shield --Very few possible crit chance nodes in the passive tree Bow +Ranged +Good passive nodes --Only 5% base crit chance. (Except for Harbinger, which is slow) --No possibility of getting spell damage on your weapon
Windripper
A weapon class of its own. This item makes other bows for CoC look like garbage. I personally would not try a bow-CoC build without this.
Dagger +Implicit global crit chance increases +DW or shield +High APS +Good passive nodes Claws +Implicit life gain on hit +DW or shield +High APS -Few passive nodes (only averaging 15% crit per point for the few that are there) --No possibility of getting spell damage on your weapon Staff: +Highest base crit chance of any melee 2h weapon. +Knockback in the passive tree. -Passive nodes that you'd want for Staff CoC are fairly far from anything else you'd want. Others: Sure, other things can be used, if you want. They're probably sub-optimal though.
Attacks
Cyclone: +++Huge number of AoE hits at melee range ---Bad desync -No good supports ---Horribly high mana consumption Spectral Throw: ++Scales perfectly with LMP/GMP. ++3 possible hits per weapon thrown, per target = ALOT of hits. ++Ranged for your melee weapon. --Much worse with less targets. Barrage: +Scales well on LMP/GMP/Chain/Pierce. ++Good on single target. --Usually not nearly as many hits as ST. Split arrow: +Scales well on Chain/Pierce. --Only usable on bows. --Bad on single target. Lightning arrow: ++Scales perfectly with LMP/GMP +Scales well on Chain/Pierce. --Only usable on bows. --Bad on single target. Molten Strike: I haven't tested this much myself, but it seems like just a melee range Barrage, with the bonus of also being linkable to multistrike. Dual Strike, Flicker Strike, Elemental Hit: Notably has 80% increased crit chance at 20% quality, but not much else. Others: Yeah, you can use any other attacks, but again, probably sub-optimal.
Spells
Ethereal Knives: ++Excellent damage, both single target and AoE. ++Almost no graphical lag. +Scales on %phys mods. Post 1.1.5 Nerf: From a CoC perspective, EK recieved a -20% damage nerf. Not as good anymore, but still decent. Glacial cascade: +Good AoE DPS. Less so vs a single target, but still good. +Freezes. (6% base crit) ~Mid graphical lag. +Scales slightly on %phys mods. Arc: +Good damage in single/few mob situations. ++That range - beautifully picks off far-away mobs. ++Excellent for sparsely packed maps. ++Shock stacks. ~Mid graphical lag. Cold snap: +++Perma freezes. -DPS isn't too good. ~Mid to bad graphical lag. -Requires Voll's or PCoC. Discharge: ++++Best damage out of any spell, period. +Shock stacks. Major downsides though: ---You lose endurance charges = you lose long Immortal calls. Makes you MUCH defensively weaker. ---AWFUL graphical lag. -Requires Voll's. Ice nova: +Good, clean damage. +Mid graphical lag. The "water" animation effect is much better in terms of graphical lag. Firestorm: ++Excellent DPS, both AoE and single target. --Suicidal vs lightning thorns. --Slightly delayed damage. --Bad graphical lag. Fireball/Arctic Breath: These two are about the same, so I'll group them together. ++Excellent damage. ~Needs LMP/GMP support. -Awful graphical lag. --Does not pierce = a mob with "allies can not die" in the back of a pack is bad news. (I've crashed many maps because of this.) Ice spear: ++Excellent crit chance = perma freeze. +Partial auto-pierce ~Needs LMP/GMP support. ~Mid graphical lag. Freezing pulse: ++Auto-pierce. ~Mid graphical lag. -Fast cast spell with lower-per cast damage = bad for CoC, but there honestly aren't too many other good projectile spells. Raging spirits: ++Excellent single-target and pack damage. +Scales greatly off of auras. -Does not scale on spell damage. --Can't leech off of. -They don't really tank for you. -Bad graphical lag with alot out. -Feels bad when you have 50 out and can't summon more. D: Post 1.1.5 buff: Does 66% more damage at lvl20 gems now! Flame Surge: ++Excellent single-target and small pack damage. Even higher than pre-nerf EK. +Low graphical lag. Ball Lightning: ++Excellent single and and small pack damage. ++Auto-pierce +Damage actually scales with increased AoE -Unlike other projectile spells, scales poorly off GMP/LMP --Suicidal vs Lightning thorns -Bad graphical lag. Others: I've seen other spells, but again, probably sub-optimal.
The build: Man-mode CoC Tank.
The concept of this build
I wanted to make a reasonably group-friendly character. I wanted the ability to carry DPS in a team. I wanted the ability to man-mode into hordes of mobs and facetank bosses (not to the extent where I'd call my character 'immortal', but as much as possible). I wanted a character that can do all map mods.
Playstyle and Features
Run ahead of your party, face-first, into a dangerous a looking pack. Cyclone, mash flasks. Everything dies. Waltz away to the next pack. Laugh at the party trailing behind you. Repeat. Survivability comes from MASSIVE instant leech from your MASSIVE dps on a life leech gem and vaal pact. This means, you can buff your survivability by buffing your dps! A glass cannon's dream! I hit crit cap (95%) with power charges up, so I'm fairly confident in not having any dud cyclones. When it takes longer than 1 second to kill a pack, I'm shock stacking and perma freezing. Also conduiting power charges and my auto-endurance charges. 1 perma curse: vulnerability, but ideally ele weakness. Both EK and Arc are powerful enough to chain-stun rare mobs.
The usual dangers
Reflect - Physical reflect is basically negligible with a CwDT immortal call, which will trigger continuously under reflect. Ele reflect is no danger unless the map is also -max, in which case, I would recommend avoiding. It wouldn't insta-kill you, but if you don't have a topaz flask up, it could hurt. Double phys reflect is still negligible. Double ele reflect is a bit tougher, but still do-able with a topaz/sapphire flask up. Corrupting blood - Easy. You have an infinite staunching flask. Lightning thorns - Usually fine with topaz up, can hurt if it catches you off guard, considering you have way more hits per second than even the fastest hitting builds, like incinerate.
Passive tree
Leveling
I created this character without using any regrets. Basically, from level 60 to 80 or so, I just played path of life nodes, and picked up the scion's ring of life. Then when I had enough points, I used my free 18 respec points to go towards master of arena in duelist. Earlier than that, I'd say your points don't really matter too much.
Notable pick-ups specific to my character
Edritch Battery: Voll's has this awful -50% max mana mod on it. EB is to just make my mana pool bigger so I can cyclone more.
Notable nodes that I have not picked up, but can
The scion has a 10% spell damage node at the start, which is worth picking up. There's also 3 12% Accuracy nodes that I pass by at scion start, also worth picking up.
Bandits
Normal - Oak (duh) Cruel - I took the passive point, but the attack speed or physical damage wouldn't be bad either. Merc - I took the power charge, but the passive point wouldn't be bad either.
Links
Generic
5/6L Cyclone->CoC->Life Leech->Some spell->Some spell(->Some spell) 4L CwDT(low lvl)->Enduring->Decoy->Enfeeble or Molten shell 3L CwDT(high lvl)->Immortal Call->+Duration 3L Reduced mana-> Grace->Some other aura If you need power charges: 4L CwDT(lvl1)->Ice spear(low lvl)->GMP(high lvl)->PCoC(high lvl)
My typical setup
6L Voll's Cyclone->CoC->Life Leech->EK->Arc->GC 4L CwDT(low lvl)->Enduring->Decoy->Molten shell 4L CwDT(high lvl)->IC->Duration->Vaal Haste 2L Grace->Reduced mana 2L Faster Casting->Portal 2L Whirling->Faster In the rest of my slots, I'm usually just leveling gems. :P
Interesting slot-ins
Since you probably have an extra 4L, something like VaalST->GMP->CoC->ArcticBreath can be pretty cute and act as a dps boost for bosses. Though, this runs the risk of killing yourself, since there's no room to link in life leech. I stopped running this link set after crashing a nice palace map with discharge slotted in place of Arctic. :( To further reduce my graphical load, I'll sometimes slot in crit-multi in place of GC. Sometimes cold snap, just to mix things up. If I'm feeling belligerent, I'll slot in discharge in place of Arc. Also CoC->portal is OP.
Items
Note that these are to be used as a reference as to what items should (kinda) look like. This build does NOT rely on any uniques in particular. Besides the daggers which I had to hunt down and bought fairly cheep (5-10c range), everything else is mostly self-found junk (Yes, I had the great fortune of 6L-ing my own chest). I'm too lazy to hunt down too many gear improvements. This is very sub-optimal, but does pretty well. The other exception to this is the Doedre's Tenure, which I corrupted about ~10 or so, before I got some curse on hit mod on it. I would have much preferred elemental weakness or temporal chains, but vulnerability is pretty good too.
Gear
When looking for a good dagger to use, the mods to look for in descending order of importance: 1. Local crit chance 2. APS, Spell damage, Accuracy 3. Global crit chance 4. Spell crit/spell crit multi One of the best things about CoC is that you have access to essentially infinite flask charges by means of the "Surgeon's" prefix. The mana flask allows me to sustain cyclone's high mana cost requirements. Everything else is optional, and I'll swap between them depending on my needs.
Flasks
Build costs
This build can be made very cheep or very expensive. I'd recommend at least a 5link (worth ~3-5c usually) or a Tabula (worth ~2ex). Other than that, self-found gear works well. You could potentially be doing 78 maps with just a Tabula, blue crafted daggers that have local crit mods, and self found gear with life and resistances.
Map bosses
Assuming the map's not -max, I can potentially solo the boss, even at 6P health. Here's some specific ones that come to mind as notable. Anything I didn't list, I can facetank with the +10% max from the flask of the boss's element. Of course, there are other things that can hurt you. For example, I wouldn't try tanking a GMP shrine piety.
Promenade Lvl69
Lightning thorns! Watch out. It used to move my health before I had max level gems and better gear, even with topaz up.
Torture Chamber Lvl72
With a topaz up and decent dps, I can just facetank the laser beams. "of Grounding" on a flask helps alot with shocks from the totems.
Jungle Valley Lvl72
This boss hits HARD and can 1 shot in between immortal calls. Facetank-able with a Jade and Granite up.
Residence Lvl74
Fist of god while standing on shocking ground will hit ~4k and can be dangerous. I'll just tank it if I have a party member with purity of lightning around, but otherwise, I'll move out for it.
Academy Lvl76
He can cast silence, which kills your dps, which kills your regen, which kills you. Facetank-able with a warding flask.
Crematorium Lvl76
Can't facetank this. I can get in there and get a few hits in during a ruby, but can't stay in for long. Have to wait for add spawns to recharge flasks on.
Courtyard Lvl78
I've never died here, but it always feels really dangerous. The encounter hits really hard, but you're healing alot at the same time. Damage spikes could potentially kill. I run both a ruby and topaz for this.
Palace Lvl78
No, I can't just tank this normally. I run for his projectiles and fist, but he has plenty of downtime for me to get damage in during, and plenty of adds to heal off of.
Aura choices
I'm only running 1 aura to leave as much mana as possible to cyclone on. If you're not using a voll's, You can get away with 2 auras on mana. Grace is OP. Run it. Or maybe not, since everyone else is already running it. Determination. Not as good as grace, less popular, so others may not be running it. You could be that guy. Purity of fire/light. +max res is goooood. I basically need purity of fire to facetank crematorium boss, and purity of lightning to facetank palace boss, including the fist of god. Hatred. Do you seriously still need to buff your dps? Well, if you really want to...
Curse choices
The problem with curses and this build is that usually, in the time it takes for me to cast a curse, I could have just killed the pack instead... However, if you do really feel like cursing... Critical weakness. The +crit multi is good, I guess. The crit chance will just be for your spells, since you can hit your weapon crit cap without cursing. Ele weakness. You can corrupt this as a curse on hit on your gloves. IMO, this is ideal for this build, especially in parties. Enfeeble. Good on a CwDT. Vulnerability. I'm currently using this on my gloves. Not bad. Temporal chains. Also possible on a corrupted glove. Not bad.
Possible future alterations to the build
Rather than going into duelist for Master of Arena, you could instead go for a ST set up with EB/MoM/AA on basically the same tree structure. The tree already touches several 20% mana regen nodes and is very close to MoM. Last edited by ZenithStar on Aug 14, 2014, 5:25:41 PM
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Nice write-up, but your character bias is showing. Let me just add a couple notes from my own experience.
weapons
- suggest adding claws to the list, because 15 life on hit is pretty cool and they go to high enough crit chance to work with. Speaking from experience.
attacks
- add to cyclone section, each cast of the skill rolls crit once, so if you get a long cyclone that doesn't crit, it's not much fun. I know you don't care much if you hit crit cap, but before that, it's a legit concern.
- since CoC was changed to have strict time delays, each flicker/dualstrike/whatever will cast the skill ONCE no matter how many enemies it splashes onto. Take note of that. Molten allows for a lot of casts because the bobbles all hit at different times, and it works very well! Note that for dual wielding each weapon is used in turn. - multistrike is like cyclone, each set of 3 attacks either crits or doesn't. It makes for some frustration sometimes. - may want to point out that AoE modifiers will affect both cyclone/molten and their linked spells - suggest adding LA to the list. If split is there, so should LA be. IS as well, for that matter.
spells
- cascade, like discharge, is a melee range skill. You really don't want to link discharge in your windripper barrage CoC, I think. On the other hand, cascade does fine single-target damage linked to molten strike.
- raging spirits don't tank for you in the sense that they can't, or rather won't, be targeted. They will absorb projectile anything that was intended for you though, unless it pierces. And on to your build. I see that your gear is in Ambush, how was the leveling process, when did you convert, etc. Bandit choice, EK builds generally recommend IPD in cruel. FYI. Suggest providing a level 60 or 70 build. 89's a bit far off for most people. Very strongly suggest moving "links" up above "items". Mostly because you have a 6L Voll's. How well does the build work on a 4L? Which order would you recommend spells in? How to make a build: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/510084
Current guides: N/A | |
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Thanks for the feedback! I'll write in everything you said. Some comments:
" I left claws out because the LGoH is not significant enough to counter reflect in any significant way. It also has very few nodes in the passsive tree. I'd say claws are really only viable with a spell like raging spirit, where you're not worried about reflect. " This is VERY important actually, and I forgot to mention it. I've had a long argument about dropping some crit nodes for accuracy nodes, as "mathematically", it would improve my dps. However true this might be, crit is rolled on a per-action basis and not critting a long cyclone could mean death. I'll probably write in a description of how crit works in this game as it seems fairly important. " I wouldn't really call it "melee range" as it's quite a bit bigger than that. In the same sense, EK has fairly poor range, which scales off projectile speed, whereas AoEs scale off increased area of effect. This is actually my 4th CoC build on Ambush alone, the preceding ones being Dagger+shield spellblock ST using Fireball/Ice spear, staff cyclone discharge/ice nova, and wand barrage raging spirits, none of which really stuck. The ST one REALLY needed an Aegis to be any good, which I couldn't afford at the time. The staff one was ALOT of fun and did really well, until I hit ele reflect. I dropped it after I died a few times to ele reflect packs that weren't even in my field of view. (I had picked up all the AoE nodes, and so my discharge was pretty big.) Maybe it could work out with Vaal pact. The raging spirit one just sucked. Probably poor planning on my part in thinking that the spirits would offset at least SOME damage (not the case). Hiding and kiting makes me feel weak. :P As for my build: Everyone has their own leveling process. I had leveling uniques by the time I made this character, so it was trivial. As with most CoC builds, you can start slotting in your CoC gem as early as lvl31, and it will (somewhat) work. I usually wait till cruel docks or merc ledge to do so. I'll elaborate in the "For those who want to try CoC for the first time" section. I could have gone either way on the cruel bandits. Since physical damage only makes up about half of my DPS, %physical would only be a %9 dps increase or so, making the 10% spell damage at the scion start a better pickup, not that I picked that up either. I actually think the APS is better than the %phys. What to do for 4/5Ls: 4L: Buy a 5L. Or even better, buy a Tabula 5L: Drop GC. Or even better, buy a Tabula |
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I really liked the idea of CoC Raging spirits, but there's just not enough benefit from it. 3 spell totems casting raging spirits with +duration linked can pump out 40-50 spirits. CoC could potentially do hundreds, but with the 50 spirit cap, the totems seem like the way to go. Now, if spirits actually used the attack linked also, that would be so sexy and broken. Imagine Molten strike->GMP->LGoH->Multi->CoC->Spirits, where the spirits also used molten strike. Goodbye my GPU. :D
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That would be actually really funny. But spirits don't have a weapon, so you're limited to fb-type builds. Not that infernal splash is any better on your GPU.
Also, yeah, it was poor planning on your part. I'm doing fine with my CoC RS. While it doesn't have the raw burst damage of CoC spellbuilds, I can fire into reflect all day with my dagger. Etc. How to make a build: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/510084
Current guides: N/A | |
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I'd say one of the major advantages to a physical bow build is the high base damage, which means you never run out of mana. The lack of spell damage is made up for by the bow attacks themselves doing pretty decent base damage, and the CoC spells are used more like bonus support gems rather than them being your primary source of damage.
Also, if you're going to put Windripper in a class all by itself, you should also consider Lioneye's. (Even though the base is only 5%, the attack speed and 100% hit chance makes up for base crit when compared to the average Harbinger of comparable cost.) | |
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That is true, and I have seen some crit split builds using CoC->EK do pretty well. Namely, with a high pdps and crit Harbinger and Drillneck, Split->Pierce->FasterProj->CoC->EK->LGoH/Leech for pack clearing and another attack on another 5/6L for single target. The problem is still that such a CoC setup's dps greatly diminishes with the number of targets available to hit. I'd also consider that more of a crit-split build, than a CoC build.
Harbingers max out at 9.4% crit chance, which is comparable to Windripper's. Too bad it doesn't touch Windripper's 1.65-1.72 aps. I think Lioneye's is really an overrated bow, and I think more and more people are starting to realize that. "Hit's can't be evaded" only yields a 20-25% damage increase at best. Yes, you could argue that not missing adds alot of consistency, but at the cost of nearly halving your chance to crit on a crit-based build? Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd say a blue Harbinger rolled for local crit chance will do better than a Lioneye's. |
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Tell that to the Quill Rain CoC guys.
How to make a build: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/510084
Current guides: N/A | |
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One of those guys should say something. :P
I had a friend try it back during Domination, and said it was crap. It needed a mana flask to sustain, and didn't proc nearly enough. I think he was LA->LMP->CoC->EK->Arc or something like that. |
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Speaking as someone who has tried every bow version, here is my experience:
Only idiots use Quill Rain. The attack speed does not make up for the inconsistent, streaky crit rate and no damage. And then you have to use a Thief's Torment to sustain mana, which means you lock out three item slots (1 Thief's = both rings) for two low level unique items that, beyond a lucky corruption roll, can never be customized. Harbinger vs. Lioneye's: I have never had a Harbinger that had both good damage and good proc rate (due to the cost). I've had a rare with nice physical damage and multiplier bonuses and a blue with max crit chance and attack speed (the Regal gave me something really dumb, so I rerolled it). Overall clear speed was better with Lioneye's 100% chance to hit with 50% crit vs. either Harbinger with 95% crit and 90% hit (since Evasion is rolled twice vs. crits, making it more like 80% chance to hit). Of course, something with both high damage and proc rate would outperform the Lioneye's, but those cost so much, you may as well just save up for a Windripper. Windripper (my weapon of choice) is not without its own issues. If you go elemental spec to take full advantage of its potential, you have issues with mana and elemental reflect. For my particular build, however, it's Perfect. I've settled on a balanced physical spec for mana leech and 50/50 elemental damage, which makes either type of reflect a non-issue most of the time. Often I'll be halfway through a reflect map and not even notice until I hit a double. Last edited by feyith on May 9, 2014, 6:31:57 PM
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