Vaal Cyclone
I got dual strike, dual bloodseeker claw duelist with hi life, hi evasion and vaal cyclone gets bugged almoust each time i use it, it got blind spots (mobs sucked itnside cyclone dont get hit even with 92% hit ratio), it desynch mobs all the time making theme fly from my cyclone to some invisible geodata blockades all the way. And The most stupid thing on this is almoust everything breaks ur cast, freeze, knockback, stun.
Any player can design a build that works,
but it takes a casual player to design a build that barely works. |
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Personally I LOVE Vaal Cyclone. I use it on two characters. On my first character, I have it linked with: Increased AOE+Increased Duration+Life on hit. I use it to balance out the hp cost of Righteous Fire. On my other character, who is a Magic find, culling tank, I have it linked with: Increased AOE+Increased Duration+Culling strike. It works great for pulling mobs together for my group to focus all their AOE in one small area. Not gonna lie though, it kills my tank on a fairly regular basis lol.
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Why the zero damage zone exists
There's a simple reason that mobs in the center don't get hit: where attacks are made is identical to cyclone, which means they start at the edge of your character. Once they're within your edges they can't get hit. Even in the center the monsters still vibrate around a little, which sometimes causes them to stick out just enough to get smacked, but this doesn't occur at nearly the rate for mobs properly on the exterior. This sort of attack area definition is sensible for most attacks and spells, since normally monsters cannot enter the player's space. But since Vaal Cyclone removes this restriction it becomes a problematic oversight.
Getting around that problem
In short, the best way to get around this issue is to crank out your damage, and I suggest using a Cast on Melee Kill combo'd with an AoE. Running Blood Rage, The Blood Dance, the Vaal Pact keystone, and a 6L Daresso's Defiance (doesn't have to be that base, but this is for maximum charge generation during the cyclone; a Voll's when you're near max crit is pretty good, but then you run the risk of getting much less out of if it when VC fails to crit, which is the same reason I don't use CoC in the following, but insanely more out of it when it does; I've even used a Tabula for a long time), I've had a lot of success with the following combo: Vaal Cyclone + Faster Attacks + Concentrated Effect + Life Leech + Cast on Melee Kill + Discharge
More build details on that
My build also has a high max frenzy charges, so there tends to be a lot of oomph in the Discharges, which just kills more stuff and feeds into the next discharge via Blood Rage and the Boots (average 1.3 frenzy charges returned per kill; with the Daresso's you get an Endurance charge per kill, as well). The Life Leech gem and Vaal Pact is entirely to deal with elemental reflect. If you specifically avoid that you can drop those two. A 5L version is easily created by either dropping the Faster Attacks or the Life Leech (if you can manage it). Keep in mind that Vaal Pact will disable life regen, so the Blood Rage degen will keep you on the move or hitting a potion of necessity. Replacing The Blood Dance with some other pair of boots (such as Darkray Vectors) is not such a bad idea once you've picked up Vaal Pact and lost the handy regen effect. I still like Blood Dance for the extra damage against low life opponents: the point is to get some melee kills in as frequently as possible, after all.
Discharge is EVIL!
If you want an option that doesn't risk lagging up party members, try something like Ice Nova instead of Discharge. You won't get nearly as much damage output, but you also don't have to worry about Frenzy charge generation as much (which can be hard in a party, anyway, since you have to score killing blows). And, as has already been mentioned in the thread, when in parties VC serves as a tactical maneuver that will draw mobs into a concentrated region where everyone can unleash their AoE attacks for extreme effectiveness, and will effectively prevent most of the mobs from attacking.
It practically pays for itself!
If you use the skill in appropriate situations (which is hard in dungeon style maps, but easily achieved in more open ones) you can actually end up with 2/3 or more of a charge towards the next use. I've even exited with a full charge on many occasions, ready to nuke another horde right away. The combo devastates large packs of mobs, as even with the Concentrated Effect and no sources of increased area the Discharge hits a wider area than the VC can.
Bosses
It annihilates the routine map bosses before the 5 second VC duration has expired in all but a few exceptional circumstances (mostly from an unexpected lack of fodder to kill, possibly because they were blocked by a terrain obstruction). Bosses like the Hillock types, that normally go into a second phase (and fully regen their health in Hillock's case in particular) can be dead before the second stage (and health regen) can even trigger. No leap slam zombies to deal with!
What to not use it on
I got completely destroyed by Carnage (the Brutus/Kole type Promenade boss) when I used VC near him, so for the heavy-hitting and risky bosses you either need to use non-VC tactics (I'm using a 2h weapon, so I have a well-linked attack that does fine on its own), or plan and test to see if it will work safely. The problem with Kole being that his "harpoon" attack can still be used when he's under the effects of the VC, and so he basically spams that on you continuously. As a side note, this leads to some fairly bizarre effects, as Kole's attack tries to move you but the VC wants to keep your location fixed. I recall seeing myself suddenly appear about half a screen away from the spot I activated VC, then shortly thereafter reappeared there, still doing the cyclone. Basically, if you would never stand in one spot for 5 seconds against a boss with any other build, using VC is likely to be a bad idea. The Herald of Storms Nemesis mod is potentially problematic. It has a decent chance to stun you during the activation phase, plus you'll be stuck in one spot for 5 seconds while thunder bolts pelt your head constantly. If you can encounter Bloodlines, then the packs that spawn bosses carry the obvious risks. If you're going to summon a Beyond boss, for example, you're going to really hope it's right at the end so you can move around, or that it's near the beginning and you've got a bunch of fodder to Discharge it into oblivion. Bloodlines are the one thing I expect to most screw with VC in future versions. Worst case, do as a HC person would: log out. The biggest problem that can happen for you otherwise is if you suck in an "other allies can't be killed" aura. Make sure to keep your buffing flasks up and always have an instant recovery life flask on hand, and you should be fine. Probably good to try to use your movement skill as soon the VC ends to get out of dodge. Worst case, do as a HC person would: log out.
Most things now die before the center, or die in it
In any case, mobs rarely make it into the interior space and survive to the end like this, though it isn't impossible. It's never been a problem for me, though. Most of the ones that can survive to the center are high HP mobs that are fatter than you, and so will still be in the attack zone. Melee mobs won't attack due to the constant movement (even in the center they're still vibrating around), leaving just the ranged and spell casting mobs to worry about.
It's fun
All in all, I find it a very enjoyable skill, and it shouldn't take that long to get a hang of how to use it most effectively and safely. I do hope they decide to make vaal cyclone attack the entire circle, instead of just the annulus exterior to your character, though.
And the funnest thing of all is...
The most super fun thing to do with Vaal Cyclone: suck in one or more tormented spirits and one or more rares/uniques for them to possess, and you can get a massive loot explosion. Extremely amusing in parties, especially with an MF culler (assuming you don't nuke everything yourself; switching to Ice Nova makes that more likely). I like to call it the Loot-nado. I've seen vertical lists of drops so far I had to go up and down from the spot by more than a screen length to see everything. Also: Beyond maps (either by map device or Otherworldly affix) become super easy to trigger the summons on. I've routinely seen the non-boss spawns slaughtered by the discharges.
And don't forget
Movement speed increases the range the VC can suck monsters in from, so a Quicksilver Flask of Alacrity becomes a DPS/clear-speed flask with VC. Of course it also pulls them in faster, but since you're really just trying to kill a single mob, the faster you can pull them into the discharge range the better.
tl;dr
Yes, a CoC-cyclone is better, but you can actually pull the CoMK-VC off with a much cheaper set of minimum gear (going for a full 6L Voll's/Daresso/whatever is always costly, but a 5L anything still works very well; you can do very well with just basic rares, as the charges come mostly from the Blood Rage skill rather than gear). And it's still a pretty cool effect, especially for the aforementioned fun reasons. Last edited by TimeDilation#5779 on Apr 18, 2015, 10:12:22 AM
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Great skill. Used it in torment league on my 2h flicker striker. I called it the vacuum cleaner. Tends to kill most of the stuff you pull.
The tactic i used the most was run around and gather packs until they became one large pack, vaal cyclone then flicker the remaining monsters that survived the cyclone with melee splash. Worked very well. Only have to be careful to not start spinning when there are devourers nearby. They are immune to vaal cyclone and will just shoot you dead while you are spinning in place. Happened on a few occassions. I give this skill a five out of five rating. It's a solid skill for most melee builds. edit 2015-09-06: since awakening release this skill is more dangerous to use. it gets me killed often by pulling in packs of flamebearers/frostbearers and all the mines go off at once and kill me. it would be nice if we could cancel animation some how. like a buff we can right click and it stops spinning. i often see the frostbearers/flamebearers but i can't do anything. only wait to die and respawn. i therefore lower my rating to 4 out of 5 for this skill. Last edited by kompaniet#2874 on Sep 6, 2015, 11:45:44 AM
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I love Vaal Cyclone, but it's unplayable due to *bearers.
I get that you don't want me to clear dried lake mindlessly with 4 usages of Vaal Cyclone at central points of the zone. But PLEASE give me at least a chance to survive Vaal Cyclone and *bearers. What about giving bearers ground effect the behaviour from necrovigil? The effect cannot overlap but instead, as you keep on killing bearers, the area around you gets cluttered. This way there is at least one guaranteed hit, which is currently already quite scary and if you fail at moving out of the cluttered mess around you afterwards, expect to die. Perception is reality.
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