WORLD FIRST USE of Vaal orb

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Arrowneous wrote:

 Ok, but when you take an item and use, let's say a Jewellers Orb, on it and you have 0% control over the number of sockets you get as a result, then this is 100% gambling and is not and should not in any way be viewed upon as "crafting". Crafting implies that we have some control over the result and since jewelling, fusing, alting, etc. does not give us any control on the results we get then GGG is doing a major dis-service to us by calling this "crafting".

Okay, yes the fusing/jewelers system is pretty darn random. I can agree with that. However, I've never had any issues 6-socketing things. I can also 5-link whatever I want with relatively no issues. Sometimes I go over 100 fusings, but not that often :-/

Also, that's not the whole crafting system. I wouldn't mind there being something added to fusings to assist or modify their crafting process. But I think the other orbs are in a decent place as to how they work. Drop rates for the orbs is a whole different discussion though.

I guess I don't see the whole system as bad. I quite like it and think they have something very functional that they can continue to build upon.

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majesw wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

Absolutely correct viewpoint. That's why GGG has no right to call this crafting when it is 100% gambling.

You don't feel that you have any control over what you're crafting? I personally feel that we have complete control... Now some of this is gated behind orb drop rates, but you can see from mirrored items that it is certainly possible to create the item you want. It's a good system. Not saying it's perfect, but a lot of people really enjoy it.

 No, I don't feel I have any control over what I'm "gambling" on. All that is required is to play PoE forever to amass 1000s of orbs and then sit there and keep applying them over and over and over (ad nauseam) until we get what we want or run out of orbs. There is no crafting skill in any way shape or form here. It is pure gambling with the RNG system in use in PoE. That is why we get posts of "I got a 6L on the first try" and another "I burned through 2000 fusings and no 6L". The pure RNG nature of the mislabeled "crafting" system in PoE is proof that no skill is involved here, just a massive quantity of the appropriate orb. I'm sure that GGG is always looking for new ways to create currency sinks to keep game inflation down but this is not the right way at all. This is a huge PoE failure for me. :(

Edit: If GGG modified the pure nature of "RNG crafting" such that as more orbs are used we get a slightly higher increase in the chance of getting what we want, then maybe the word crafting would apply. So for example, if we got a .10% increase in chance to 6 socket a sword that means that by the time we used 100 jewellers we increased our chances of getting 6s by 10% and thus, even with the worst of bad RNG luck, we were guaranteed to get the 6s at 1000 orbs max then at least we would feel like we have some (albeit little) control over the whole process. As it stands now we could burn through 2000+ jewellers and never get a 6s. With the low drop rates of jewellers and fusings this would be an acceptable compromise. I understand that this would require additional fields in the item record to keep count of the applicable orbs used (jewellers and fusings) but it is doable and GGG would warn us appropriately if we did something to an item (scouring, blessing, or alching comes to mind) that would reset the counters.

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Arrowneous wrote:

You don't feel that you have any control over what you're crafting? I personally feel that we have complete control... Now some of this is gated behind orb drop rates, but you can see from mirrored items that it is certainly possible to create the item you want. It's a good system. Not saying it's perfect, but a lot of people really enjoy it.
 No, I don't feel I have any control over what I'm "gambling" on. All that is required is to play PoE forever to amass 1000s of orbs and then sit there and keep applying them over and over and over (ad nauseam) until we get what we want or run out of orbs. There is no crafting skill in any way shape or form here. It is pure gambling with the RNG system in use in PoE. That is why we get posts of "I got a 6L on the first try" and another "I burned through 2000 fusings and no 6L". The pure RNG nature of the mislabeled "crafting" system in PoE is proof that no skill is involved here, just a massive quantity of the appropriate orb. I'm sure that GGG is always looking for new ways to create currency sinks to keep game inflation down but this is not the right way at all. This is a huge PoE failure for me. :(

It's really just a matter of perception... Crafting is always going to be "collect x materials, craft x item"... GGG has put their own spin on this by making it possible that the craft will take less or more time based on RNG. I agree that there can be improvements to this system, but it's all just a different take on the same base concept.

You do realize how well they created the currency sink don't you? The economy in standard is remarkably stable (barring legacy items). It's amazing to see the new leagues reach maturity to find that their prices nearly match standard. So while I agree that parts of the crafting system could be tweaked, I don't agree that working on currency sinks is the wrong path to take. It's certainly proved to be successful.

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majesw wrote:

It's really just a matter of perception... Crafting is always going to be "collect x materials, craft x item"... GGG has put their own spin on this by making it possible that the craft will take less or more time based on RNG. I agree that there can be improvements to this system, but it's all just a different take on the same base concept.

You do realize how well they created the currency sink don't you? The economy in standard is remarkably stable (barring legacy items). It's amazing to see the new leagues reach maturity to find that their prices nearly match standard. So while I agree that parts of the crafting system could be tweaked, I don't agree that working on currency sinks is the wrong path to take. It's certainly proved to be successful.

 All arpgs require ingredients to be collected/farmed and then used in a specific way to create or modify an item to be better than it currently is. PoE is no different than any other arpg in this regard. What is most frustrating is that once all the time is sunk into playing PoE to farm, trade, RMT (heaven forbid!) enough orbs that then we have 0 control over how many orbs it is going to take to get the desired results. So if I played for 1000 hours and amassed 1000 fusings, my current chances of getting a 6L are no better than someone who has only played 100 hours and gets lucky with a 6L in only a few dozen fusings. To be sure some form of random luck is always to be expected in any arpg, but to the degree that PoE "crafting" for sockets and links is completely based on RNG luck with no skill involved and no way to increase your odds of getting a 6S or 6L no matter how many orbs are used is PoE "crafting" failure as I see it.

 I'm perfectly happy with a crafting system that requires gems, orbs, scrolls, etc. to be used to craft an item such as the many recipes we have in PoE. But there aren't recipes for all or our crafting needs and some crafting mechanics (such as my crafting suggestion) wouldn't be feasible for socketing and linking anyway. Some of the recipes are too obscure to do unless you are a no-lifer farmer committing 40+ hours a week to get enough drops of the very rare ingredients. While I do acknowledge that someone who plays PoE more should be rewarded better for their time crafting is still mostly a failure for me in it's current incarnation.

but what is considered an improvement on an item?

What if I want to get 3 link instead of my current 4?

Or maybe (due to still having snapshotting) you want to get a reverse 5link instead of the normal one you have right now?

The only orb that can benefit (and I agree that it should) from not regressing is the jewellers orb.

Yolo vaaled my bow in ambush. How is this mod possible. Its ridiculous.

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felhuy wrote:

Yolo vaaled my bow in ambush. How is this mod possible. Its ridiculous.

epiiiic. too bad you're stuck with 3 sockets, but eppiiiiic

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felhuy wrote:

Yolo vaaled my bow in ambush. How is this mod possible. Its ridiculous.

Nothing has changed except the implicit mod? What about socekts?

Three tries and nothing happened. Too unrewarding. I think this is a good moment to stop playing, for a while at least. I like the idea of the orb but the details of it might need some work.