[0.10.4b] Bow Marauder (The Shocker (tm)) [**TO BE UPDATED SOON 1.0.0**]

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Kingrat wrote:
hmmm this is what confuses me, if it's better to use lightning arrow in the linked item, why does the OP say to use split arrow :S? I'm just sort of confused as to what skills I should have on my toolbar and such.


The OP is basically saying use SA until you can find a 4 link item that works for you. At that point, you switch to LA. The reason for SA at first is because, without Fork added to the mix, LA isn't nearly as powerful as SA is with just EH and and Faster Projectiles.

Fork is what makes LA the bees knees because it causes you to basically AOE a significantly larger group that just continues to get bigger as you fight more and more things at once.
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morsdraconis wrote:
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Kingrat wrote:
hmmm this is what confuses me, if it's better to use lightning arrow in the linked item, why does the OP say to use split arrow :S? I'm just sort of confused as to what skills I should have on my toolbar and such.


The OP is basically saying use SA until you can find a 4 link item that works for you. At that point, you switch to LA. The reason for SA at first is because, without Fork added to the mix, LA isn't nearly as powerful as SA is with just EH and and Faster Projectiles.

Fork is what makes LA the bees knees because it causes you to basically AOE a significantly larger group that just continues to get bigger as you fight more and more things at once.

Excuse me everyone for not being available lately; I'm on a trip and don't have standard internet access!

I wish to talk about 2 things here - DPS tooltip and picking the right AoE skill, aka the LA vs SA debate, and socketing best support gems.

DPS TOOLTIP!

Alright so you just hovered over your Elemental Hit, and it said 200 DPS, then you socketed an Ice Shot in its place, and it says 500 DPS. Whaaaat? Well, Elemental Hit does not count it's additive damage in the DPS tooltip, so it is a bit mind boggling without knowing the mechanic. Elemental Hit will end up doing crazy high damage despite the low DPS on tooltip.
Now you socketed up Lightning Arrow + Chain, and you see the DPS went into the ground. Really low. Whaaaat? Well, you have to count in for the mechanic of how your new skill combo will work. Lightning Arrow is not a single shot by itself, it branches around and hits additional enemies. Lets simplify and say that makes its DPS 3x higher actually. Now, when you add in Chain, it further expands the amount of branches LA will do, lets say now it becomes 10 branches, but at a cost of 50% less damage, so the effective comparison means it deals 5x more DPS than the tooltip says.
My explanations are not all that great here, but you can see that the DPS tooltip itself is not the key to understanding the actual DPS, you have to actually understand the skill mechanics to know what the actual damage output will be.

SA vs LA (plus support gem clarification!)

This purely depends on the amount of sockets; as pointed out by morsdraconis above. I wouldn't exactly recommend incorporating Chain into your skill before you get a 5L item. Simply because having a 5L item probably means your overall character development stage can take Chain and work well with it. Taking Chain too early hinders my kill speed usually.
One absolutely crucial support gem you have to run on Any gem combination is Weapon Elemental Damage. Just don't skip it, it is so, so, so good. Use it on whatever amount of links you have; be it 2L, 3L or 6L. Another thing worth mentioning is the Life Leech / Life Gain on Hit gem. It depends on the life regeneration you have, and potions you use, but generally, LoH/LL are not mandatory for less than 5L or 6L combinations, as you will easily regenerate more than you spend. LoH/LL truly shines later on when your attack speed and "mana" cost become much higher, and you want to protect yourself from reflect damage and what not.
Now the Split Arrow debate! If you take a moment and look at what you are trying to do with other skills (such as LA), you basically mimic the basic mechanic of Split Arrow by adding LMP or GMP. So using SA with a low amount of links ends up being more efficient; because you don't need to sacrifice a support gem to mimic it. On another note, you are still free to use whichever combination you want, so lets make an example with 3L, you may use LA+LMP+WED or SA+WED+FA, and both will work. Personal preference - I prefer SA+WED+FA!


I hope this post helped some of you! I'm contemplating changing the OP to reflect the fact that a lot of choices are not mandatory but personal preference of mine...
Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
What lvl are you atm. @ VenatorPoE.

Btw. i think this build is easily Hardcore viable, just reached 53 and didnt died a single time in softcore.
Please read my posts twice before you answer, you are probably not smart enough to get the meaning of it but hey its still free2play.
Spoiler
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VenatorPoE wrote:
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morsdraconis wrote:
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Kingrat wrote:
hmmm this is what confuses me, if it's better to use lightning arrow in the linked item, why does the OP say to use split arrow :S? I'm just sort of confused as to what skills I should have on my toolbar and such.


The OP is basically saying use SA until you can find a 4 link item that works for you. At that point, you switch to LA. The reason for SA at first is because, without Fork added to the mix, LA isn't nearly as powerful as SA is with just EH and and Faster Projectiles.

Fork is what makes LA the bees knees because it causes you to basically AOE a significantly larger group that just continues to get bigger as you fight more and more things at once.

Excuse me everyone for not being available lately; I'm on a trip and don't have standard internet access!

I wish to talk about 2 things here - DPS tooltip and picking the right AoE skill, aka the LA vs SA debate, and socketing best support gems.

DPS TOOLTIP!

Alright so you just hovered over your Elemental Hit, and it said 200 DPS, then you socketed an Ice Shot in its place, and it says 500 DPS. Whaaaat? Well, Elemental Hit does not count it's additive damage in the DPS tooltip, so it is a bit mind boggling without knowing the mechanic. Elemental Hit will end up doing crazy high damage despite the low DPS on tooltip.
Now you socketed up Lightning Arrow + Chain, and you see the DPS went into the ground. Really low. Whaaaat? Well, you have to count in for the mechanic of how your new skill combo will work. Lightning Arrow is not a single shot by itself, it branches around and hits additional enemies. Lets simplify and say that makes its DPS 3x higher actually. Now, when you add in Chain, it further expands the amount of branches LA will do, lets say now it becomes 10 branches, but at a cost of 50% less damage, so the effective comparison means it deals 5x more DPS than the tooltip says.
My explanations are not all that great here, but you can see that the DPS tooltip itself is not the key to understanding the actual DPS, you have to actually understand the skill mechanics to know what the actual damage output will be.

SA vs LA (plus support gem clarification!)

This purely depends on the amount of sockets; as pointed out by morsdraconis above. I wouldn't exactly recommend incorporating Chain into your skill before you get a 5L item. Simply because having a 5L item probably means your overall character development stage can take Chain and work well with it. Taking Chain too early hinders my kill speed usually.
One absolutely crucial support gem you have to run on Any gem combination is Weapon Elemental Damage. Just don't skip it, it is so, so, so good. Use it on whatever amount of links you have; be it 2L, 3L or 6L. Another thing worth mentioning is the Life Leech / Life Gain on Hit gem. It depends on the life regeneration you have, and potions you use, but generally, LoH/LL are not mandatory for less than 5L or 6L combinations, as you will easily regenerate more than you spend. LoH/LL truly shines later on when your attack speed and "mana" cost become much higher, and you want to protect yourself from reflect damage and what not.
Now the Split Arrow debate! If you take a moment and look at what you are trying to do with other skills (such as LA), you basically mimic the basic mechanic of Split Arrow by adding LMP or GMP. So using SA with a low amount of links ends up being more efficient; because you don't need to sacrifice a support gem to mimic it. On another note, you are still free to use whichever combination you want, so lets make an example with 3L, you may use LA+LMP+WED or SA+WED+FA, and both will work. Personal preference - I prefer SA+WED+FA!


I hope this post helped some of you! I'm contemplating changing the OP to reflect the fact that a lot of choices are not mandatory but personal preference of mine...

some good explanation. demand it in first post under spoiler))) viable for newfags)
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fLekkZ wrote:
What lvl are you atm. @ VenatorPoE.

Btw. i think this build is easily Hardcore viable, just reached 53 and didnt died a single time in softcore.

Currently playing my Ice Cold Templar. The bow marauder is around 45 only, I didn't get far with it yet. What can I do, so many things to try out, so little time!
Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
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Venator wrote:
Now the Split Arrow debate! If you take a moment and look at what you are trying to do with other skills (such as LA), you basically mimic the basic mechanic of Split Arrow by adding LMP or GMP. So using SA with a low amount of links ends up being more efficient; because you don't need to sacrifice a support gem to mimic it. On another note, you are still free to use whichever combination you want, so lets make an example with 3L, you may use LA+LMP+WED or SA+WED+FA, and both will work.
Personal preference - I prefer SA+WED+FA!

Edit:
yeah without LoH, SA would be better.

But when you add LoH, LA wins because not only does the main arrow give you life, the splash dmg to 3 nearby monsters also gives you life.
lets say LoH gives you 15 HP per hit. thats 4x15 hp you're getting back with just LA. LMP adds 2 more arrows. now it's 12 x 15 hp.

4L: LA LMP WeleD LoH
Last edited by Pi314 on Feb 10, 2013, 9:03:42 PM
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Pi314 wrote:
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Venator wrote:
Now the Split Arrow debate! If you take a moment and look at what you are trying to do with other skills (such as LA), you basically mimic the basic mechanic of Split Arrow by adding LMP or GMP. So using SA with a low amount of links ends up being more efficient; because you don't need to sacrifice a support gem to mimic it. On another note, you are still free to use whichever combination you want, so lets make an example with 3L, you may use LA+LMP+WED or SA+WED+FA, and both will work. Personal preference - I prefer SA+WED+FA!


but wouldnt SA still be more efficient even if you had 6L armor?

From my understanding, LA will be better than it because of the shock effects that we get in the Templar's tree, especially Static Blows.

Also, a question to Venator, what would be the best single target for 1v1 fights early game? I'm around level 30 and I still haven't come accross Elemental hit, so I'm using Burning Arrow right now.
Last edited by Vitor5 on Feb 10, 2013, 8:57:01 PM
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Vitor5 wrote:
From my understanding, LA will be better than it because of the shock effects that we get in the Templar's tree, especially Static Blows.

Also, a question to Venator, what would be the best single target for 1v1 fights? I'm around level 30 and I still haven't come accross Elemental hit, so I'm using Burning Arrow right now.


well, from my calcs, you get Static blows with your 66th skill point. thats a long ways away from lvl 30. you'll probably be in Merciless when u get it.

I'm lvl 33 and also dont have elemental hit. for boss, i'm using burning arrows+WED+added lightning.
i tried frenzy but burning arrows gives me more DPS.

but then again, Venator just wrote above that the DPS can be wrong because it doesnt take into account some game mechanics.
Last edited by Pi314 on Feb 11, 2013, 12:40:05 AM
Hello, i recently switched to this build from a 2h ground slam build and im trying to make it work. I respecced out of some stuff and im getting there here is where im at so far

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEADjwUIBRxGS4c5yDwJ-0otTIJOlJE51BHUFBR5lRJVgRXDVhjXz9giGFSah5qO3KpfNmGYIzPkc6ezZ_LpzCoGKyqtC-53cbY0iHZYd-_51LvDu9O8i_z3fZI974=




As far as gear goes i have shitty dmg gear and i can barely kill mobs in fellshrine on cruel it takes forever. Can someone give me some tips and tell me whats wrong.

I still gotta take out 2 mace nodes from my tree.
Just got to lv 49 on HC.

Just wondering, how is faster attacks is better than faster projectiles?

And, does anyone know how to calculate the average dps of elemental hit?

AND which out of the static blow or projectile damage (where you go for the proj dmg/speed nodes near duelist) build has more dps?

Anyways, thanks for the great build! It's been great :D.

P.s Should I use molten shield or enduring cry?

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