Open Letter to Qarl, regarding topics discussed in RMT thread

I highly doubt we will ever get a meaningful reply about these issues ever. That would mean actually thinking about the problem and trying to figure out how not to fuck the average player while combating the bots. That takes a lot more work than telling everyone to "be nice" and "if you have any suspicions that somebody is botting or engaging in RMT, please send us an email so we can promptly lose it in the void".

"

thedestroyerofkids wrote:

I highly doubt we will ever get a meaningful reply about these issues ever. That would mean actually thinking about the problem and trying to figure out how not to fuck the average player while combating the bots. That takes a lot more work than telling everyone to "be nice" and "if you have any suspicions that somebody is botting or engaging in RMT, please send us an email so we can promptly lose it in the void".

man you are such a debby downer.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

thedestroyerofkids wrote:

I highly doubt we will ever get a meaningful reply about these issues ever. That would mean actually thinking about the problem and trying to figure out how not to fuck the average player while combating the bots. That takes a lot more work than telling everyone to "be nice" and "if you have any suspicions that somebody is botting or engaging in RMT, please send us an email so we can promptly lose it in the void".

man you are such a debby downer.

That may be the case but its for good reason. I love the game. I love almost everything about it. But the subject of trade and RMT and cheating and botting really gets under my skin. There are so many things that have been taken from the average player solely for the interest of protecting the economy from the bots. In all my time here there has been so many removals of things from the game like large chests and such that were good fun for the average player. All the while they keep making decisions that foster this type of behavior like legacy items and removal of IIQ.

At the end of the day I wish I could come back but just logging on to the game is sickening to me now because of how everything added up to just feel unfun and unrewarding.

"

lethal_papercut wrote:

"

Qarl wrote:

Well, I know what happens when we up the drop rate of things, people hoard their items more and use them less. I know this because we have done a lot of experimentation with drop rates in the past.

As this is the exact opposite of what people expect, when I mention this tends to people arguing with me that Economics 101 says I am wrong. Given we have the data from what actually happened, I expect I need someone who did well beyond 101 to explain why this happens.

The thing is Qarl in his great wisdom decided to increase the drop rates on currency without actually letting the community know!

Also, the game is inherently a hoarding currency game!

People are aware that the 'crafting' system is actually a gambling currency sink so they aren't inclined to blow all their orbs on that & would rather hoard until they can purchase something via trading.

Upping the rates & not telling the community makes the results not worth the paper they are written on.

The hypocrisy of sarcastically referring to someone elses "great wisdom" while acting like you have some yourself and know better.

"

thedestroyerofkids wrote:

But the subject of trade and RMT and cheating and botting really gets under my skin.

I know this will sound asinine, but just forget about it.

Every online game with any sort of rpg element has these problems in spades compared to poe (unless they are super tiny and not on the map).

Look at d2, the great measuring stick that every arpg is compared to. Botting was wayyyyy worse with many average people using bots. RMT was much more common and open. Probably around 25% of the players used maphack to cut their meph runs to a fraction of the time. And then we had duping which literally formed the landscape of the games economy to what it was.

WoW and other mmos have these probs too.

If multi billion dollar companies have the same probs or even worse than what makes you expect GGG to be able to succeed where they failed?

It pisses me off too but at the end of the day it really does not affect my bottom line (fun) for the game too much.

"

Splift wrote:

"

thedestroyerofkids wrote:

But the subject of trade and RMT and cheating and botting really gets under my skin.

I know this will sound asinine, but just forget about it.

Every online game with any sort of rpg element has these problems in spades compared to poe (unless they are super tiny and not on the map).

Look at d2, the great measuring stick that every arpg is compared to. Botting was wayyyyy worse with many average people using bots. RMT was much more common and open. Probably around 25% of the players used maphack to cut their meph runs to a fraction of the time. And then we had duping which literally formed the landscape of the games economy to what it was.

WoW and other mmos have these probs too.

If multi billion dollar companies have the same probs or even worse than what makes you expect GGG to be able to succeed where they failed?

It pisses me off too but at the end of the day it really does not affect my bottom line (fun) for the game too much.

Quote mining much?

His very next line says:

"

There are so many things that have been taken from the average player solely for the interest of protecting the economy from the bots.

IF the game's attempts to curb botting and RMT in such a way that it hampers the enjoyment of the average player, then the average player has something to gripe about, because the botting and RMT is having a direct impact on his enjoyment of the game.

And personally I agree 100% with him. I really want to love this game because what they did well, they did so well. But aspects of the economy really are dysfunctional and they desperately need to be fixed.

"

thedestroyerofkids wrote:

All the while they keep making decisions that foster this type of behavior like legacy items and removal of IIQ.

This is actually what bothers me most about the situation, GGG's duality on the subject.

Legacy IIQ is, I think, the best example of it. You can make an argument for god tier legacy uniques - it might not be a good argument, it might not be great for the game, but there's at least some logic behind it.

Legacy IIQ though, has no reason to exist, especially the gem. Bot farmers and wealthy folk can crank up the IIQ and continue inflating prices, while MF actually becomes significantly harder for the average player to obtain. I'm not a fan of MF as it is now, never-mind when half of it will be out of the reaches of the average/casual player. It's impact on the game is, in my opinion, negative, as drop and crafting rates have to be balanced around its use.

Moving forward, I guess I'm hoping they'll use the new leagues to test out new drop rates, crafting rates, new recipes/mechanics, etc, and that those improvements will eventually get back to standard. My main concern is that they'll probably never remove legacy MF things from the game, since at this point they seem to be more worried about the handful of people who've heavily invested in overpriced legacy gear, rather than the rest of the playerbase.

"

Xarog wrote:

Quote mining much?

His very next line says:

"

There are so many things that have been taken from the average player solely for the interest of protecting the economy from the bots.

IF the game's attempts to curb botting and RMT in such a way that it hampers the enjoyment of the average player, then the average player has something to gripe about, because the botting and RMT is having a direct impact on his enjoyment of the game.

And personally I agree 100% with him. I really want to love this game because what they did well, they did so well. But aspects of the economy really are dysfunctional and they desperately need to be fixed.

If you are implying that I somehow found one line in his post to pick at and misrepresent his overall point then you are flat out wrong and I suggest you read my post again.

And as for your tinfoil hat implication that GGG is ruining the game to fight botting, that is a laugh and I did not even bring it up for that reason. No sense in trying to argue with something so ridiculous.

You just like many of the other people crying about the "economy" really just want "MORE ITENS PLOX" even if you don't realize it yourself. And GGG giving you more items won't solve anything, it would actually make it worse.

The drop rates for high end orbs are balanced around the existence of bots which is why you will never find more than 5 eternals in your entire lifetime.

"

Look at d2, the great measuring stick that every arpg is compared to. Botting was wayyyyy worse with many average people using bots. RMT was much more common and open. Probably around 25% of the players used maphack to cut their meph runs to a fraction of the time. And then we had duping which literally formed the landscape of the games economy to what it was.

WoW and other mmos have these probs too.

If multi billion dollar companies have the same probs or even worse than what makes you expect GGG to be able to succeed where they failed?

Till 2002 Blizzard deeply cared about D2 removed ebay auctions etc.
Blizzard not caring about D2 2003-2005 was the declaration of giving D2 up.

I don't know about WoW but in D3 Blizzard took the wrong step and tried to gain money from RMT.
This is one big reason D3 failed.

The goal should be minimize cheating to a minimal extent and kill the big RMT potential.
If big shot RMT sellers and buyers receive bans there aren't people anymore who can sell their 6 linked epic rare for several hundred dollars and all they receive are low offers so they are more likely to trade it the intended way.

I actually also like the idea of 1 time tradeable currency.
This makes RMT muling useless because the currency will stay allocated to the mule account.
RMTers were to be forced to use their main account and get caught.

This would heavily currency hoarders because you trade currency when you need currency.Since you can trade it again anymore.