Improve Whirling Blades (analysis inside!)

I would change WB to have some kind of implicit weapon range bonus - it's really fiddly to hit things with it when everything is slightly desync'd. The idea of making it inflict a weak Puncture effect is also pretty cool, as it fits the theme of bladed weapons and would work nicely with a skill that doesn't lend itself to piling on the hits on a given target.

That said, I think its primary function should be survival/mobility. What if WB had a (highish) chance to blind enemies that are struck by it? Alternatively, it could give a large but short-lived Evasion buff, so that Evasion-focused characters can make themselves very hard to hit while whirling.

One thing that would allow the devs to be more adventurous with WB is to give it a short cooldown (bypassable with a Frenzy charge). For instance, getting rid of the 'recovery' period after you whirl would make it a lot better as an escape skill, but then you'd have to throw a cooldown on it so that people don't just spam it to get from one end of the level to the other at ultra-speed.

I'd like to see Whirling Blades first of all get a desync workover as it seemingly and quite randomly will just refuse to actually go where it appears to go, or you get hooked behind a corner.

As for its damage, it definitely needs to hit more than once per mob. First, it needs to damage with both hands so potentially two hits per whirl through right there, and then more chances based on attack speed, maybe even skill level. Like say if you cut your attack speed in half you can hit twice with each hand per whirl, and each level reduces this by 1% so at a 0.7 attack speed you'd potentially hit each hand twice at level 20 gem. I think this would be more than enough of a buff, aside from maybe starting it at 100% base physical given that it's already geared towards builds that aren't using high damage weapons but high attack speed.

bump. whirling blades for 2h swords would be really nice

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

* Leap Slam deals 100% of base damage, Whirling only does 80%.
* Leap Slam scales to 76% increased phys damage with gem level, Whirling only 57%.

You should note that Leap Slam only affects the area of which you land. Whirling Blades will strike any and all targets in your path.

I found Whirling Blades a rather potent skill in PvP, as there have been times I would try to cast Desecrate then lead an enemy into the bodies. Instead, I found them staying on top of me and slowly whittling me away with their mobility skill. Even though their main attack did 1,000% more damage, it was their mobility skill that was killing me. I didn't dare stop because it meant they did more damage. Game over.

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

* Leap Slam can traverse barriers and height differences, Whirling cannot.
* Leap Slam can travel less than the maximum distance if you click closer to yourself, Whirling cannot.

This is a huge difference. Leap Slam offers the ability to traverse gaps while Whirling Blades can't, but Whirling Blades guarantees a maximized movement while Leap Slam can actually suffer from being used to close to yourself. A Leap Slam targeted right next to you will take just as long as one targeted at maximum distance.

There has never been nor ever will be a situation where you want to move exactly to a spot, as you will be more focused on simply getting away. If you are focused on a spot, your cursor is already there.

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

* Leap Slam, being an AoE, can be supported by Increased AoE gem and nodes, providing an option to improve the potential number of targets hit. Whirling Blades has no such option (unless weapon range matters to it? Anyone know?).
* Every support that Whirling Blades can use, Leap Slam can too. Additionally, Leap Slam can use Concentrated Effect and Multistrike if desired, which Whirling cannot.

The only benefit that Leap Slam gains from having an AoE is LGOH, as a mobility skill. Whirling Blades benefits just as much, so the AoE is negated. So AoE doesn't matter.

Multistrike on Leap Slam is asinine, again if being used as a mobility skill. It will automatically take you to the next two enemies and actually defeat itself.

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

* When Dual Wielding, Leap Slam only uses the main hand weapon, while Whirling Blades randomly picks a hand to hit with. This is actually a point in Leap Slam's favor, as you have the option to equip an off-hand weapon purely for the dual-wield attack speed bonus without worrying about whether or not that weapon does good damage.

This is beside the point. Leap Slam and Whirling Blades are mobility skills, and are not comparable to actual damage dealing skills like Dual Strike, Double Strike, Infernal Blow, and so on.

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

It should be clear from the above list that Leap Slam outshines Whirling Blades in almost every way that matters.

On the contrary, it doesn't outshine it. Look at my first paragraph.

From my experience, Whirling Blades is better overall until the player hits a gap, and only then Leap Slam becomes superior.

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Blue_Phoenix wrote:

TL;DR: WB sux, Shield Charg OP, nerf Lighting Wrap pl0x!

Shield Charge? OP? What drugs are you taking? Shield Charge is tied for the most useless skill in the entire game.

Lightning Warp is weaker than any other mobility skill since it can be interrupted more easily than any other and delays your movement. This can cost you your life. Whirling Blades is used because it begins to move you instantly. Lightning Warp is delayed, and requires a cast.

In my opinion Whirling Blades should behave like one of Vega/Balrog's Super Moves.
You spin through the enemies, hitting them multiple times.

Movement speed should be the stat affecting your travel speed with Whirling Blades.
Attack speed would solely affect number of hits.

Assuming it deals 2 hits by default, there would be certain Attack Speed breakpoints at which you reach 3, 4, or more hits.

So with 50% IAS, you'd hit 3 times.
With 100% IAS, you'd hit 4 times.
So on.

Dual Wield's multiplicative 15% attack speed bonus would naturally affect this, and you'd alternate weapons when calculating damage per hit.

I love whirling blades. Whirling blades only needs a tune up. It does not need a damage or attack buff. Many good reasons given above.

It suffers from ground clutter and de-sync. You click to move and... nothing. Am I de-sync? Am I out of mana? Stunned? Frozen? Still alive? No, you are "stuck" by some path obstacle that is not apparent. Or you are not where you think you are, so cannot go where you are pointing.

Sometimes ground clutter is decoration, sometimes not. Many objects render with invisible corners. Other than this finicky and sometimes very frustrating behavior Whirling Blades is pure fun.

Solution 1: Treat the character as if low flying during WB. This would give platforming as well as obstacle forgiveness. Too much utility? There are already movement or teleport skills that allow this. And WB already has a built in recovery animation.

Solution 2: Let WB go around urns, pillar stumps and rough edges as if clicking and walking with a quartz flask up. But, program more path intelligence to overcome clutter and un-rendered corners.

I hate to necro this but just going to put my two-cents in here and say that Whirling Blades could be better.


My suggestion for bringing Whirling Blades up to par with the other movement abilities is by making it create a short duration smoke cloud either at the epicenter of it's travel distance or at the start and/or end. Since it can't traverse a long distance or wall in a pinch (like LW and LS do), it would at least be nice to know enemies you can't escape from are blinded allowing for better positioning. This would work with the theme of the skill without making it too strong of a damage dealer. The impact it would have in LLD would be substantial, I understand this much, having enemies being blinded by your mobility skill would be devastating, that's what I suggest that it be a short duration, like 1 second for all levels, could make it 2 or 3 with duration nodes/gem.


@natharias, multi-strike leapslam isn't asinine, it's actually quite effective in PVE content. Also, the fact that the two abilities are movement skills doesn't mean that they can't be used as main damage skills. Whoever said your skill must not have "movement" in it to be a viable attack, the skills surely deal damage and hits so something was intended, you're just disregarding the drastic differences that favor Leap Slam and are arguing their viability as main skills. Leap Slam is VERY capable as main attack. Whirling Blades is not. Your "first post" is invalid; Leap slam can choose to jump on the area where Whirling Blades little bitty line will hit and therefore is superior; leap slam has a much large hit radius so desynced mobs are more likely to get hit aswell : B Your argument in favor of Whirling Blades for PVP is substantial enough WB will hit more often as it is less telegraphed than Leap Slam however; Flicker strike is available to both for "sticking" purposes.

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Nurvus wrote:

In my opinion Whirling Blades should behave like a hybrid between Spectral Throw and a Samurai Charge.

What I mean is, you first pass through enemies, and then they are each hit multiple times, based on your weapon speed and number of weapons.

The number of hits per target and interval between them should be based on your weapon(s) speed, alternating hands if dual wielding.

Essentially, you'd be "drilling" through your enemies in a flash, and them leave them bleeding behind you.

Leave big hits for Leap Slam.

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Nurvus wrote:

In my opinion Whirling Blades should behave like one of Vega/Balrog's Super Moves.
You spin through the enemies, hitting them multiple times.

Movement speed should be the stat affecting your travel speed with Whirling Blades.
Attack speed would solely affect number of hits.

Assuming it deals 2 hits by default, there would be certain Attack Speed breakpoints at which you reach 3, 4, or more hits.

So with 50% IAS, you'd hit 3 times.
With 100% IAS, you'd hit 4 times.
So on.

Dual Wield's multiplicative 15% attack speed bonus would naturally affect this, and you'd alternate weapons when calculating damage per hit.

I'll add to this the following details:
1 - Only Movement Speed should affect the travel time (Attack Speed only affects number of hits).
2 - Base number of hits (at slowest base attack speed available to valid weapons) should be at least 2 in order to create decent "breakpoints" for your attack speed.
2.1 - Damage per hit would be lower to compensate.
3 - Mana cost would scale with # of Hits.
4 - Distance would always remain the same.