Summon Raging Spirit

Scanned this thread and didn't see the following suggestion. Might have missed it though.

I typically play pure summoner and in the past, arc was my choice to help minions target specific mobs or to destroy crates, barrels, etc. If I use SRS in place of arc, I can no longer smash these barrels and whatnot.

"Just forget about smashing things", you might say. I think not. I find quite a many orb within them, and I've had 2 exalts drop from crates/barrels! Besides, they're fun to break. I still currently use arc so I can break things, but that's all I use it for. It takes up a slot for that purpose only.

Any chance that SRS can be programmed to destroy the environment when no enemies are around, like arc does now? I figured the skill was made anyway to replace such secondary attacks like arc/fireball/firestorm/etc. that summoners used in the past (and still can, obviously). It just makes sense for a pure summoner since elemental skills do absolutely nothing for the build. It's a quality of life request.

By any chance did they get changed in 1.1?


In 1.0.6 with max auras they could deal pretty good damage single target, making solo bosses pretty easy even with just a 4-5l.

Now the auras don't seem to affect them, the damage is the same with or without anger and wrath (both buffed) up.

After some more testing, i'm pretty sure that something happened to the Damage Effectiveness, the auras deal 1/10 the damage they should.

Skill descriptors include "Spell, Fire." Do elemental damage nodes increase their damage, or not?

Also, any definite confirmation that Minion Instability has any effect? I see plenty of anecdotal observations, but it doesn't seem clear. =0[.]o=

Would be nice if a lot more information was given.

How do auras such as wrath, but also hatred interact with the minions and whet is the damage effectiveness, does that also apply to minion instability etc. etc.?

What I could fins is that the damage effectiveness is about ~70%. This means 30% less damage from auras (quite a big thing) that add a flat damage amount?

The minion deals 100% physical damage, of that 50% is converted to fire damage.
Hence the base 50% phys/ 50% fire.

Is this base than multiplied by 0.7 damage effectiveness?

As I understand it hatred and added fire damage would go over the full damage of the raging spirit as in:

total damage = {base_phys_dmg * (increased_minion_dmg + added_fire + hatred + 0.5fire_conv + 0.5not_conv) * (1 + melee_phys_dmg[more])} + {Anger + Wrath} + {(1+ increased_minion_dmg) * (added_cold + added_lightning)}

* Damage_effectiveness[0.7] ???

Minion damage does not apply to anger or wrath since those are added after the minion is summoned/ created. Does this mean that hatred also applies after the 50% conversion hence instead of + hatred it would be + 0.5*hatred?

Is the damage effectiveness applied at the end over the total amount of damage? I thought we finally got rid of that confusion, but here it is back again?

If hatred is after the 50% conversion than hatred would be a pretty poor choice to use since that would mean:
Effective_hatred = hatred * 0.5 * 0.7 * (1+ melee_phys)
30% hatred and 30% more melee phys support gem would give:
13.65% increase in damage, without melee support 30% hatred would only give an increase of:
10.5% increase in damage. No matter your aura nodes, this seems quite poor of an increase no matter the amount of skulls you have, thus hatred would suck balls, due to taking place after the 50% conversion. Is this the case?

Wrath and anger most likely suffer from the damage penalty, if damage effectiveness is the last thing to be taken into account.

1. First your minion gets its base damage from supports and passive skills when summoned?
2. After this aura damage is added to the minion (not effected by minion damage passives)?
3. Finally when it deals damage the damage effectiveness is applied?

I think it is like this, but it is damn hard to actual find anything that confirms this as literally every single thread seems to lack the conclusive bit of information and it seems that damage effectiveness after auras was patched in at some point, making a lot of threads completely unreliable for their information.

Enfin assuming anger and wrath suffer from the 0.7 penalty as mentioned on the wiki, these 2 auras still would be the best addition to them if you manage to create more raging spirits and increase their attack speed. Thus haste comes before hatred, since you cast faster, the spirit will attack faster and the spirit will be able to move in faster (do more attacks) on the enemy.

If the 0.7 got screwed around with, which seems to be the case since more and more people are mentioning little effect from anger and wrath than this skill would be quite useless with auras apart from haste. If used with totems the totem won't benefit from the cast speed of haste.

To me it seems CoC is also kind of ruining the balance. To have it do more, what seems to be its intended design, you do have to link the amount of skulls summons to the amount of cast speed the skill is used with. This would mean CoC suffers most, than totems and finally the main skill <- seems the proper way to choose for the design of this skill?

I like to know the exact figures, the exact mechanics at play here, because I am building such a character atm and don't want to be disappointed down the road, since free re-specs are not happening in this game, it is up to GGG to provide clear, accurate, up to date and elaborate documentation.

Damage Effectiveness on Raging Skulls works exactly the same as on Skeletons. And exactly the same as on all other spells (Base Damage)+(Modifiers*effectiveness)

There might be a bug with auras, I don't know I haven't tested.

Also, hatred isn't a conversion it's an "aaded as" effect which uses ENTIRE base physical damage meaning other conversion effects have no bearing on how much damage hatred adds.

Yes that is how it works on a character that is how it is in my example, but minions according to numerous post seem to work differently. In my search for clear answers I came across numerous posts that mentioned that auras get added to minions post summoning them. Which in case of the minion would mean 50% of phys dmg is already converted? How am I supposed to interpret that?

Here are the two options:
Is the summon when summoned a formula that allows for more variables to be added or subtracted (we get the formula as in my previous post) or are we looking at a solution as in the sum of the skill (Active and passive) and supports over which the auras do their work?
In the latter case the minion on the summon uses the early formula excluding the auras and bluntly said the total_dmg = 50% physical_dmg + 50% Converted_dmg. If auras get added to that the impact on hatred would be quite big (while added fire support would still work of 100% base_phys). It would be counter intuitive to how the game normally handles things, but apparently it would fit how minions are made and snapshot can work?

The reason why this came up in those discussion is because of the snapshot mechanic, but previously (in these old discussion) the minions pretty much had no conversion happening at summon so this discussion was non existent, it mostly had to do with minion damage w.r.t. other supports and the auras.

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Ozgwald wrote:

Yes that is how it works on a character that is how it is in my example, but minions according to numerous post seem to work differently. In my search for clear answers I came across numerous posts that mentioned that auras get added to minions post summoning them. Which in case of the minion would mean 50% of phys dmg is already converted? How am I supposed to interpret that?

Here are the two options:
Is the summon when summoned a formula that allows for more variables to be added or subtracted (we get the formula as in my previous post) or are we looking at a solution as in the sum of the skill (Active and passive) and supports over which the auras do their work?
In the latter case the minion on the summon uses the early formula excluding the auras and bluntly said the total_dmg = 50% physical_dmg + 50% Converted_dmg. If auras get added to that the impact on hatred would be quite big (while added fire support would still work of 100% base_phys). It would be counter intuitive to how the game normally handles things, but apparently it would fit how minions are made and snapshot can work?

The reason why this came up in those discussion is because of the snapshot mechanic, but previously (in these old discussion) the minions pretty much had no conversion happening at summon so this discussion was non existent, it mostly had to do with minion damage w.r.t. other supports and the auras.

Yesterday i tested some more so:

-Level 15 RS without passives deals 100~ damage per hit, 50 phys and 50 fire.

-Level 15 RS without passive, with Wrath and Anger and every passive aura node, deals 275~ damage, and it should be around 325-350 (after calculating the damage effectiveness).

-Level 15 RS using the Spell Totem, 50 damage per hit.

-Level 15 RS using the Spell Totem, Wrath and Anger deals 150 damage, meaning that the 50% Less Damage of the totem actually affect the Auras.



Since their damage is so low, Hatred is just a bad idea. And since the totem reduces the damage of the Auras too, this skill is just garbage.

The only possible utility is to use it with CoC, but then again, you have so many better skills.

"

Ozgwald wrote:

Yes that is how it works on a character that is how it is in my example, but minions according to numerous post seem to work differently. In my search for clear answers I came across numerous posts that mentioned that auras get added to minions post summoning them. Which in case of the minion would mean 50% of phys dmg is already converted? How am I supposed to interpret that?

Here are the two options:
Is the summon when summoned a formula that allows for more variables to be added or subtracted (we get the formula as in my previous post) or are we looking at a solution as in the sum of the skill (Active and passive) and supports over which the auras do their work?
In the latter case the minion on the summon uses the early formula excluding the auras and bluntly said the total_dmg = 50% physical_dmg + 50% Converted_dmg. If auras get added to that the impact on hatred would be quite big (while added fire support would still work of 100% base_phys). It would be counter intuitive to how the game normally handles things, but apparently it would fit how minions are made and snapshot can work?

The reason why this came up in those discussion is because of the snapshot mechanic, but previously (in these old discussion) the minions pretty much had no conversion happening at summon so this discussion was non existent, it mostly had to do with minion damage w.r.t. other supports and the auras.

Raging Spirits have "Convert 50% of Physical Damage to Fire" as a passive effect, and as far as hatred is concerned it works just like a plyer (the areas where minions differ form players do not involve damage conversion).