[0.10.0] Claw Witch - We can rebuild her, We have the technology!

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KinderH wrote:

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Koiju wrote:

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KinderH wrote:

Hello Koiju, the 3 points you put in ice damage are not a real big deal, if you like to spell ice spells, go for it, it won't hurt you :P
But i'm not understanding something, at the begining of your tree, why don't you go straight to Deep Wisdom through the mana nodes instead of taking the dex and int nodes ? That way you would also be able to take the two ES nodes that are missing for less investment don't you ?

That was cos I was rushing to ghost reaver and the mana leech right off the bat thinking they'd be really important without realising just how important pumping my shield was, heh.
I'll be respeccing those nodes out at some point I suspect.

Thanks for the imput though, why do you say they arnt that important (the ice damage) wiki said that freeze and chill durations was based off of damage delt and they seem a decent damage boost (particularly the +18%) is there some reason this isnt needed? will the ice spells always do good damage even without these nodes?

Yes but if you use the hatred aura, i think your chill/freez will last longer since the frost damage done are based on your physical damages.
In that type of build you will obviously deal more physical damages than any magical, so 18% of less magical will be less intersting than 18% of physical that have bigger base value.
Or am i wrong in my maths ?

I see your point, but going by the wiki, arctic breath is 126-190 base damage at level 17, the highest level claw (level 70) is 17-68 base damage. Assuming around + 100% claw damage (it's actually 78% in the build I posted, but I'm assuming you'd get more), thats 34-136 physical damage, dual strike level 17 is +44% damage, then double that for hitting with both weapons is... about 100-400 damage. hatred at level 18 is 24% of damage to cold damage so thats about 25-100 cold damage, about 100 points less than arctic breath, plus arctic breath is an AoE. This of course is assuming that the wiki is correct.

So I was thinking, based on these numbers, that cold spells would be better for the CC than hatred, especially since they are ranged and AoE.

Use spell totem with temporal chains or an ice spell to slow stuff. You dont have time to spam spells, you'll be busy whacking stuff since you lack aoe damage :)


*ps, cant decide if I shall start a dagger, claw or 2-hand witch!

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Koiju wrote:

I see your point, but going by the wiki, arctic breath is 126-190 base damage at level 17, the highest level claw (level 70) is 17-68 base damage. Assuming around + 100% claw damage (it's actually 78% in the build I posted, but I'm assuming you'd get more), thats 34-136 physical damage, dual strike level 17 is +44% damage, then double that for hitting with both weapons is... about 100-400 damage. hatred at level 18 is 24% of damage to cold damage so thats about 25-100 cold damage, about 100 points less than arctic breath, plus arctic breath is an AoE. This of course is assuming that the wiki is correct.

So I was thinking, based on these numbers, that cold spells would be better for the CC than hatred, especially since they are ranged and AoE.

Ok got your point. Looking forward your tests to see how it works in game for you, and if the difference is noticable.

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talonmas wrote:

Use spell totem with temporal chains or an ice spell to slow stuff. You dont have time to spam spells, you'll be busy whacking stuff since you lack aoe damage :)


*ps, cant decide if I shall start a dagger, claw or 2-hand witch!

But I don't lack AoE... Cos I have the spells :P

Actually, from testing, I noticed that having the spells is extremely useful for more dangerous encounters. Sometime you get large groups of mixed enemies, these are suicidal to charge into the middle of, and the build is just too squishy to survive trying to tank that many things at once. In those situations, having a ranged attack in the form of ice spells is invaluable!

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KinderH wrote:

Ok got your point. Looking forward your tests to see how it works in game for you, and if the difference is noticable.

So far KinderH, my main complaint is that its a touch squishy, though this can be mitigated with high quality equipment, and the fact that this build is amazing at hit and run tactics.

From running around in the slums of act 3 at level 32, the only real threats are very large groups and (in the warehouse area) flicker striking rare mobs. Flicker strike on enemies makes it extremely hard for you to hit and run, and very large groups can drop you pretty fast. With a bit of careful and timely movement (using whirling blades to dodge incoming ranged attacks and leaping enemies) you can avoid and kite a few mobs out of larger groups and take them down a few at a time. The cold spells are actually very useful for the CC, often freezing or at least chilling anything they hit, especially cold snap. If a cold spell crits its an almost guaranteed freeze.

I've taken to weaving cold spells between whirling blades, flicker strikes, and viper strikes. By making sure I always hit a small group (or single enemy) with a cold spell before flicker striking in, it mitigates a fair bit of damage, allows me to get some good viper strikes in, then whirling blades back out again before taking more than a couple hits.

I've also been able to take advantage of reduced energy shield recharge delay and my high mobility to get my shield to recharge in the middle of a fight with a rare or after making a mistake, without completely breaking off.


TLDR: So far it's great fun, but a very intense play experience. Sitting still for too long will get you killed very quickly (getting frozen or stun locked is certain doom, make sure to get some cold resist!) though this might be because it's my first and highest level character, and as such my equipment is a bit lackluster.

Damage hasn't been an issue, I can hit and run regen and other tougher enemies with viper strike and that's generally enough.

I'd consider cold snap and freezing pulse to be core to the build atm, the ranged AoE CC and damage is far too useful for me to even consider taking them off my bar, and ice spear has seen its use against large groups of ranged mobs.



P.S: ATM you could achieve the exact same thing from dual daggers (no life gain on hit, but more crit chance) I suspect that this will change once I get the life leech claws with ghost reaver though, and ill start using the physical attacks more to leech my energy shield. We'll see what happens when I get that high, heh.

I'm having a little trouble keeping up with the game right now, but I'll try and consolidate all the new info when I get some time :3

Also, it's been a while: How's everyone's builds working out so far in practice?

Using spells is an entirely different build. We're doing a Claw Witch here, inheritely NOT an OP build. Going ice+crit spellslinger is the most cookie cutter char out there, and thus boring. I think most here realize that a claw witch is more for a lol than for event races or great farming. An thread about how to create a gimped char as good as possible. And here are my thoughts:

This is just how I think when I create builds, and this is in NO way a complete build or what I will use. Just "how" I think when I create stuff. Next step is to try and prolly alter every single bit :)

What is needed from a build and different routes to achieve it(generic):
Defense:
High HP
High ES
High regen
High leech

(then there's armor/resist/CC/evasion etc etc, but we all need it anyway)

Offense:
Physical dmg
Elemental dmg
Crits
Hitrate
Attackspeed

Then there's penetration (-resist or vulnerability curse for example)

You cant get all of the above, but you need a few. And some have better synergy than others. Unless you go CI, your hp have to be high to deal with chaos damage. If you go with CI you can skip hp and regen nodes. All in all I'd say it breaks even in the end. Although high hp has a bit easier overall while CI is a bit more specialized.

Claws:
First I ask myself, what defense route am I going? HP or CI? Or a mix? Pure CI is meh in my opinion if you're wielding claws. If you go CI then go daggers. Fits the build soooo much better with all the op dagger nodes surrounding CI :)

So, im going either HP or a mix. Next bit, regen or leech? Well duh, easy one. Leech. Why else use claws, right? Leech is what makes claws different from other weapons. Otherwise you'd use them instead (since they have better dps and crits). So, with leech settled, high hp or mix hp/es? If I go a mix I almost feel obliged to pick up Vaal Pact. And although this could be cool, I think it's quite a lot of points wasted. Perhaps in my super super super end-game build? But not at "only" lvl 80 :)
With high hp you dont benefit from Vaal Pact that much (leech caps at 20% of your max life).

Alright then! High hp build it is, with a lot of leech!


Now, on to damage!!

My first thought was: HP leech = high physical damage, since leech is based on physical hits. Then I realized.... claws have puny puny physical damage and crappy crit rate :(
So, second option, elemental damage? Im a witch. I get way more mana than Shadows (who usually are the ones using claws). What do we use high mana for? Spamming 12 mana cost skills? No, dont think so! Auras baby! And Inner Force is just next to Witch anyway :)
So wrath+hatred+anger+speed of claws+many elemental nodes at witch/templar area (going there for hp anyway) = quite nice DPS. Plus, with this spec Lightning Strike+LMP is a very strong AoE (that we lack otherwise).

But with this setup my leech wont be super great (since i do low physical dmg). So now im thinking of going back to mix hp/es instead since my leech prolly wont reach the cap anyway.

Alright, that was a lot of nonsense sprouting out of my brain. Only thing of this I think I'll keep in my build is going for an aura elemental damage type of build.


Cheers!

IGN with my new Claw Witch: CutieCat


A build I put together in 10 min (actual 10 min). So not the build Im going for, more like giving you the rough idea of what I'm aiming for :)

Click for build --> Elemental Claw Witch

I'm mighty lvl 5 now so beware ;) (I blame work and gf)

Would just like to point out that the build I posted/am doing is NOT an ice + crit spellslinger. Just cos I use some ice spells doesn't make me a spellslinger >.>

I'm going 50/50 spells/claws, I use the spells just for the CC then dive in to damage with claws. (I added flicker strike to my build, btw)

The build is more of a hybrid between pure claw and an ice witch, reason being that I don't think pure claw is going to work AT ALL. I'm not talking 'it's not optimal, therefore it's crap' I mean you're going to die so much it wont be fun, and if it's not fun theres no point in playing it :P

If you can make it work good for you, I'm not saying you shouldn't do that or that it doesn't belong here, your build is cool, but there's nothing wrong with me doing it a bit differently. This thread is about peoples attempts to make a claw witch viable enough to be at least fun (but not optimal), and my way of achieving that is getting a couple ice spells for the CC so I can then hit and run more effectively.

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I just realised something, some people may be reading CC as crit chance. When I say CC, I mean crowd control, ie, the chill and freeze effects, NOT crit!

Essentially, in my play experience, flicker striking into the middle of a large group of mobs will result in me dieing in literally 1 to 2 seconds. Thats not long enough to do anything, I basically learnt the hard way that I have to chill/freeze them first, this separates the group up more and makes it much safer to flicker strike in. Against single enemies I usually just flicker strike to them and whack away in melee.

My build had ice and spell damage in it because I didn't know if the base damage would be enough (chill/freeze duration is based on damage dealt), but now that I'm 35 I'm thinking I wont need it, the base damage on the spells appears to be high enough to deliver the chill/freeze as it is, so I can go all out on claw/DW nodes. So I might not be 50/50 ice/claw in the end, more 25/75 ice/claw!


Link to updated version of where I'm aiming towards: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMBVysHY-aBwFRzUxFQu9Y74eL3pyuLem0ZIvRrF2wLDY0c3H_GwcXsGMNtEZYOSKc044SIa4_62-dHBsLsX2q0xUBVb1cMjQ1JKwrBANsaEHv1S746tveZmutjdYrUBREvh9uT_K7P6461SBa_NkKoGg-rPWWSgJoXTud_fy5Fkyc3Ziympus3g-q676Dtdmp-Ff3WB2cemnitHt1ItAxGcZUgKPrr7oRIPI4Bb1fJNAqxs-1Bpn8oKplXMFR-WSLqm7XDOussGYZ9W1FMIJw=

I'll pick up CI if I manage to get my ES high enough and/or chaos damage becomes a serious issue.

Started playing PoE a few days ago. Claws on witch seemed interesting so decided to give it a try. This thread has been a lot of help and I picked up the Vaal Pact build from the first post. So far it has been quite a painful road. Still love the claws and aint quite ready to give up yet but getting to level 60 has been really painful.

Going all ES nodes as quickly as possible resulted in having no damage early game while still not being tanky enough to get anywhere near mobs. Probably should've picked up some HP nodes until getting CI. Was using Arc to do some damage while staying far enough to stay alive.

It was probably near level 40 when I finally picked up the claws. By that time I had put some damage nodes near Shadow in. Which resulted in nice damage boost. Still, no comparison to any of the other classes. While still having hard time getting those hits in without getting killed. That's when I realized exactly how item dependent (claw?)witch really is. ES being only lifeline with 25% evasion rate while having to resistance to physical damage because low armor - its harsh. Been trying really hard to keep my gear up to my levels since then.

Things started getting better after I got level 49 life leech claws. Coupling that with GR and lightning strike helped me clear mobs faster while leeching enough ES back to stay alive. With some HP flask spam from time to time when the damage got too much to leech over.

Now reaching level 60 I finally decided to go for CI. To mitigate the -60% merciless chaos resistance. With Discipline active having 1400 ES I have finished Act 1 and now farming up some levels and gear before going for Act 2.

I have decided to use same gems that were featured for shadow in build of the week 14. While swapping Double Strike out with Dual Strike. Seems to be the best choice available to claw right now.

While leveling up only thing to keep me going has been the belief that the build has good potential late game. Definitely not a build I would use for hardcore. That'd be a nightmare. Might not be that bad while not being as constricted by funds as I was.

Might have done something completely wrong which is the reason for me having such miserable time leveling but I guess thats to be expected for someone who just picked up the game. Hope to hear more from other claw witches and to have this thread alive again.

I am using dw claws on my witch, so far enjoying it. But yeah when I get hit i feel it :( its a pity life on hit does not apply to ghost reaver :(

No more people :( playing claw witches ?