Please, please please give Ice Nova the Incinerate treatment

There are cast on stun builds that don't require any manual casting which are far more appealing for potential botting, so that argument is invalid for ice nova.
The problem with ice nova is that it's too good in every aspect except for raw damage. You don't have to target anything and you have full aoe coverage. We all know that GGG likes skills with a twist. Well, apparently ice nova's twist is its low damage lol.

I have to agree with Auto here, though I lack the first hand experience in HC. Nonetheless, Ice Nove fulfills its own role, and works fine at it. Unlike, for example, Freeze Mine (you mentioned) which does nothing unique, nothing any other cold spell can't already do, it just does it better and in such a way that that quality of other cold spells becomes trivialized.

Is an ice nova buff necessary? Not so long as it manages to chill, freeze, and/or proc EE over a large area with ease. Would an ice nova buff be welcomed? Certainly, and I'm willing to bet that at some point in the future, through our (expected) seasonal meta shifts, it will at some point be the go-to skill for a while.

In a room full of monsters (surrounding you), you just run around in circles and gather them up into a line, then freezing pulse them to death. Both skills are just as effective at dealing with that situation - actually Ice Nova is far weaker at it, because its longer cast time means it is far easier to be interrupted or injured. Freezing Pulse is more mobile and thus safer, even if it's more effected by lag.

The buff to added cold damage helped Ice Nova a lot from my brief testing, but it's still a terrible primary spell. And since freeze mine is far better at support, Ice Nova needs to be looked at - because Freeze Mine /should/ always be better, because it doesn't actually do /any/ damage. Ice Nova is in the uncomfortable position of, "Horribly weaker than FP for damage" and "Horribly weaker than Freeze Mine for support". I guess Arctic Breath is in a similar state, but I haven't used that spell at all, either, so I'll refrain from commenting on it (Arctic Breath also has ground-ice, which makes it pretty worthless because of how unoptimized that effect still is, so Ice Nova really should not get that particle effect).

If you haven't used the spell, well, your opinion's valid, n' all, but I've tried to use it several times and it just isn't fun to use. At the very least, GGG needs to fix its early game damage scaling so it's not a pain to level with, or they need to introduce supports that make me want to level this thing. But I suppose the same could be said of Shock Nova, which they keep buffing every other patch (but still continues to be terrible). GGG recently buffed Fireball, which was in a similar awkward state - I mean, Fireball can be kickass in endgame maps, but it's pretty lame to try and level with - not nearly as lame as Ice Nova - but if Fireball can get a 20% damage boost, then Ice Nova surely needs a similar favor done to it (though I would prefer staging, like in Incinerate, since it would fit the theme of the spell better I think).

Discharge is utterly broken because it was a shit spell for a while, then it was terribly OP but still too gimmicky and set-up intensive (similar to perma Immortal Call builds) for a grindy ARPG, so they buffed it to the point where using it may be worth the effort (it is definitely OP however).

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Autocthon wrote:

The reason it is what it is is because it is FAR FAR better than Freezing Pulse in certain situations.

Imagine a screen filled with enemies, literally filled every which way. Freezing pulse has a ~90 degree arc of effect and is effective to about 30% of the way from the screen's edge.

Ice nova has a 360 degree arc of effect, and can be effective all the way to the screen's edge.

In that one situation Ice Nova is so much better than Freezing Pulse that, in your way of evaluating it, Freezing Pulse is non-viable.

The problem is that that situation just doesn't exist. Or rather players don't care about that situation enough to actually pack a spell good for it when they can have a 6L ANY OTHER SPELL that's enough better in the other 80% of situations that the fact it takes 4x as long to clear that one situation doesn't matter.

Ice Nova is amazing in one situation, and useless in all the other situations because if it wasn't it would be broken. See Discharge, discharge is what Ice Nova would be if it was made to be "worth it". You know, other than the fact that Discharge has such brokenly huge damage because otherwise it would be useless at 3 charges... Oh wait.

They make a spell good at the "majority" situation and it inherently becomes too good at the "minority" situation.

Problem is ice nova is so frustrating for many people because they would like a decent damages self-centered AoE spell, and ice nova seems to fit the place but its high utility (chill and freeze) doesn't allow for proper balancing with high damages. As for shock nova, everyone knows how its impractical to run as a main spell. What the game would need to please these players (including myself) is a fire nova spell.

They pretty much did the same mistake with arc, where most people would like to use it as a main spell they put utility in it in place of damages, making it only useful as a off spell (shock chances on quality). Same for artic breath.

I would be all for a support gem which removes support / elemental crit/hit effects in place of doing 'more' damage.

I'd be all for removing shotgunning with spells from the game. Which levels the playing field and makes Ice Nova an actually attractive option (as well as any other spells that don't shotgun).

Or just changing ice nova's casting mechanics to make it less cumbersome. ".5 second cast time, delayed cast .4 seconds" for instance. And makes it want things other than faster casting.

While I agree the "shotgunning" of spells makes balancing difficult, many people already find the mechanic fun and "expected". This interaction has been in the game for two years now. The ship has sailed for axeing that functionality. It would also require quite a spell rebalance - a substantial number of support gems would need to be added that make up for the loss of close-range power. You'd be making spells like fireball and FP absolutely worthless compared to weapons. It really isn't an option.

Obviously.

But that's where the problem lies. Spells that can shotgun without shotgunning are worthless because they have to be balanced assuming they shotgun. And then spells that can't shotgun cannot be made to feel good without eclipsing every spell that DOES shotgun by having what is essentially a free support gem.

The entire problem is rooted in a system that at this point can't be changed without massive community uprising.

Either shotgunning exists and spells that don't have shotgun potential have to be "support" or "bad" or it doesn't and the community has to be appeased for the change.

Ice nova is...

A) In need of a 40% damage buff to make it worth casting (New Discharge gonna be nice, all the OP none of the oppurtunity cost)
B) in need of about half the cast time to make it worth casting (Bye freezing pulse, we'll miss you)
C) In need of a ton more support options (Too bad any of them will be better on other spells)
D) A support spell

Pick one. I personally find using it a fun distraction, freezing 2 screens of enemies is always amusing.

Remote Mine/Conc Effect help Ice Nova's damage not be terrible. Alongside Freeze Mine's -cold resist and mine passives, it's a pretty strong combo. I picked it for my Shadow 65 and it's been smooth-sailing thus far.

A base damage bump would make it quite a bit faster. It would make the base mana cost make sense, at least.