ZiggyD's Etheral Knives Mana Shield Scion/Shadow Build Guide - Hardcore (Updated for 1.1)

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Isu wrote:

Hey ZiggyD, I enjoyed seeing you play this Scion build and am also planning on trying it out as a Shadow later. The passive skill tree route I came up with is rather different; do you think you could take a look at it and compare it to yours? I don't know if there are any problems with it that I overlooked, but it looks solid to me.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYADkgRlhUgFecWbxcvGNsZhRmGGYoabBqPHNwdqh6UJDwkqiaVJ6ko-imlKk0s6S2DL2826TyORZ1GcUlRSn1OKlBCVUtVxlXWVi1XyVptW69irGTnZ6Bte2-ecLtzs3Txeqp_xoCkgh6Cx4MJg9uFMod2iEKMNo9GkyeXBprgm7Wdqp2uoi6nCKdcrD-sR6x_tAy4k7vjwcXDOsSiykrOcc9l0NDVT9ad2RPbC9xX3Q3ed-GI42rquuss6-7wa_Pd9tr56PrS-wn8S_zF_ro=

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d4nnyus wrote:

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Isu wrote:

Hey ZiggyD, I enjoyed seeing you play this Scion build and am also planning on trying it out as a Shadow later. The passive skill tree route I came up with is rather different; do you think you could take a look at it and compare it to yours? I don't know if there are any problems with it that I overlooked, but it looks solid to me.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYADkgRlhUgFecWbxcvGNsZhRmGGYoabBqPHNwdqh6UJDwkqiaVJ6ko-imlKk0s6S2DL2826TyORZ1GcUlRSn1OKlBCVUtVxlXWVi1XyVptW69irGTnZ6Bte2-ecLtzs3Txeqp_xoCkgh6Cx4MJg9uFMod2iEKMNo9GkyeXBprgm7Wdqp2uoi6nCKdcrD-sR6x_tAy4k7vjwcXDOsSiykrOcc9l0NDVT9ad2RPbC9xX3Q3ed-GI42rquuss6-7wa_Pd9tr56PrS-wn8S_zF_ro=

I think this is even better than ZiggyD´s. If compared this gives you:

10% less energy shield
22% more HP
100 less accuracy
4% more mana and 20% more mana regen
6% more castspeed
8% less aura effect, but 5% less mana reserved
8% less elemental resisitances

than ZiggyD´s.

Plus you dont have curses forever.

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Snowtooth wrote:

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d4nnyus wrote:

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Isu wrote:

Hey ZiggyD, I enjoyed seeing you play this Scion build and am also planning on trying it out as a Shadow later. The passive skill tree route I came up with is rather different; do you think you could take a look at it and compare it to yours? I don't know if there are any problems with it that I overlooked, but it looks solid to me.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYADkgRlhUgFecWbxcvGNsZhRmGGYoabBqPHNwdqh6UJDwkqiaVJ6ko-imlKk0s6S2DL2826TyORZ1GcUlRSn1OKlBCVUtVxlXWVi1XyVptW69irGTnZ6Bte2-ecLtzs3Txeqp_xoCkgh6Cx4MJg9uFMod2iEKMNo9GkyeXBprgm7Wdqp2uoi6nCKdcrD-sR6x_tAy4k7vjwcXDOsSiykrOcc9l0NDVT9ad2RPbC9xX3Q3ed-GI42rquuss6-7wa_Pd9tr56PrS-wn8S_zF_ro=

I think this is even better than ZiggyD´s. If compared this gives you:

10% less energy shield
22% more HP
100 less accuracy
4% more mana and 20% more mana regen
6% more castspeed
8% less aura effect, but 5% less mana reserved
8% less elemental resisitances

than ZiggyD´s.

Plus you dont have curses forever.

This route seems more flexible to me as well.

While there are some trade-offs, you maintain so much flexibility on the tree that allows you to balance out your build with the gear you have available. For example you can go for more Life like Isu did, or spec out of the top right life nodes and get a huge cast speed increase through Nimbleness, or get the aura improvement nodes if they're underleveled, or get Inner Force to buff up your defensive auras and AA. Hell, you can drop up to 30% Life (still have 212%) compared to Isu's build and get both Nimbleness and Inner Force if you want to. I think this sort of flexibility is also Shadow's biggest advantage over Scion in this new version of the build.

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Phalthallus wrote:

I'm curious why both Isu and ZiggyD neglected the projectile damage nodes at the starting area for Shadow, and went with cast speed and spell damage instead. Are you guys not planning on using EK any more? I thought that EK only benefited physical/projectile damage, and not from spell damage nodes.

Also, since you are so close to Point Blank (two nodes), is it worth grabbing? I was thinking with the tankiness of this build, you could really benefit from that, and just face-tanking stuff while you check out knives. Thoughts?

EDIT:
This is the build I came up with yesterday before seeing both of those builds. The #'s are a lot different, but after comparing the base and + max % for life and mana both, they aren't as different as they first appear.

http://poebuilder.com/#character/AAAAAgYAAP0VIBdQGNsZhhmKHNweGh6UJDwmlSepKaUqTSpbLOktRy2DMZ41kjZ7OuE8jj8nSTtJUUp9SshMLU3jTipQQlM1VUtWLVb6Wm1br18qZ6Bqk21sbXtuaW6qb550QXRVdPF4unzOf8aCHoMJhTKHdohCiPGMNo_6kyeXBpu1n3uhIqTCplenXKw_rEesf7QMtKO1SLXytkG7476nwA_BxcM6w23EosS4ykrSGdJN1e3V-NbR2wvcV90N6rrrLOvk7BjyRfT4_MX-j_66_5M=

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d4nnyus wrote:

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Phalthallus wrote:

I'm curious why both Isu and ZiggyD neglected the projectile damage nodes at the starting area for Shadow, and went with cast speed and spell damage instead. Are you guys not planning on using EK any more? I thought that EK only benefited physical/projectile damage, and not from spell damage nodes.

Also, since you are so close to Point Blank (two nodes), is it worth grabbing? I was thinking with the tankiness of this build, you could really benefit from that, and just face-tanking stuff while you check out knives. Thoughts?

EDIT:
This is the build I came up with yesterday before seeing both of those builds. The #'s are a lot different, but after comparing the base and + max % for life and mana both, they aren't as different as they first appear.

http://poebuilder.com/#character/AAAAAgYAAP0VIBdQGNsZhhmKHNweGh6UJDwmlSepKaUqTSpbLOktRy2DMZ41kjZ7OuE8jj8nSTtJUUp9SshMLU3jTipQQlM1VUtWLVb6Wm1br18qZ6Bqk21sbXtuaW6qb550QXRVdPF4unzOf8aCHoMJhTKHdohCiPGMNo_6kyeXBpu1n3uhIqTCplenXKw_rEesf7QMtKO1SLXytkG7476nwA_BxcM6w23EosS4ykrSGdJN1e3V-NbR2wvcV90N6rrrLOvk7BjyRfT4_MX-j_66_5M=

Well since EK is spell, it actually does benefit from spell dmg and cast speed. Its damage is counted from spell dmg and also physical dmg.

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Phalthallus wrote:

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d4nnyus wrote:

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Phalthallus wrote:

I'm curious why both Isu and ZiggyD neglected the projectile damage nodes at the starting area for Shadow, and went with cast speed and spell damage instead. Are you guys not planning on using EK any more? I thought that EK only benefited physical/projectile damage, and not from spell damage nodes.

Also, since you are so close to Point Blank (two nodes), is it worth grabbing? I was thinking with the tankiness of this build, you could really benefit from that, and just face-tanking stuff while you check out knives. Thoughts?

EDIT:
This is the build I came up with yesterday before seeing both of those builds. The #'s are a lot different, but after comparing the base and + max % for life and mana both, they aren't as different as they first appear.

http://poebuilder.com/#character/AAAAAgYAAP0VIBdQGNsZhhmKHNweGh6UJDwmlSepKaUqTSpbLOktRy2DMZ41kjZ7OuE8jj8nSTtJUUp9SshMLU3jTipQQlM1VUtWLVb6Wm1br18qZ6Bqk21sbXtuaW6qb550QXRVdPF4unzOf8aCHoMJhTKHdohCiPGMNo_6kyeXBpu1n3uhIqTCplenXKw_rEesf7QMtKO1SLXytkG7476nwA_BxcM6w23EosS4ykrSGdJN1e3V-NbR2wvcV90N6rrrLOvk7BjyRfT4_MX-j_66_5M=

Well since EK is spell, it actually does benefit from spell dmg and cast speed. Its damage is counted from spell dmg and also physical dmg.

Ahhhh....that makes more sense. I was confusing Ethereal Knives for Spectral Throw, from reading the Wiki yesterday. Makes much more sense now. So basically if you are going EK, you want physical damage, spell damage, and faster cast speed? Does +projectile damage help?

And if you are going Spectral Throw, then you drop all +spell (dmg/speed?), and go for physical/projectile nodes?