ZiggyD's Etheral Knives Mana Shield Scion/Shadow Build Guide - Hardcore (Updated for 1.1)

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Hlokk wrote:

Sooo... Yeah... Sorry if this is out of place but...
What do you ppl think of this?

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMBAuMEfgX5B2MHpQj0DkgRlhXwFr8Y2xmKGo8a2xzcHaoelCP2JDwk_SaVJ6kppSycLR8tgy9vMYgyATpYQZZEq0ZxSVFJskp9TLNOKlAwUEJVS1WuVi1W-lcrWkhabVuvXyph4mKsY0NnoG0ZbXtvnnBScLtw1XNTdPF5A3_GghCCHoMJhTKHGYd2h9uIQow2j6aTJ5cGmyabtZ2jnaqiLqKjo4qnXKw_rH-yGbQMu-PAUcBUwfPDOsSiykrPetad2RPbC9te3FfdDd-w4YjjhOdU6-TuDu_w8h3z6vba-WP7Cfyr_MX-ug==

Basically, I'm inclined to use a more crit oriented build, with PCoC.
I know that I won't have Sovereignty but still... Will probably be able to run 3 Auras easily.
I do think I would have more life, not quite sure.
Thinking about getting High Spell Damage Dagger with innate %Global Crit, and if possible some extra Global or Spell Crit Chance on it.
Also, avoided most Crit Multiplier for the sake of not one-shotting myself on Reflect packs.

I'm inclined to try this out, also, Witch start is obviously not required, other possibilities range from Scion to Shadow and Ranger.

So, any ideas? Changes? Critiques?

PS: Keeping in mind, the intent is Invasion.

I think that your build is about as good as you're going to get from a crit-based EB/MoM build. You're absolutely right in dropping Sovereignty and going with three auras, because that's a lot of +10 stat nodes that you get to save. I'm just not convinced that crit is the way to go for any EB/MoM build these days.

EB/MoM is a tank combination, and I think it works best if you maximize that as much as you can. That obviously makes sense for Invasion. But choosing to go crit means that you will have less to spend on survivability, for two reasons: 1) crit on gear was nerfed in 1.1, and on Invasion you can't even choose to over-pay for "legacy" high-crit gear, and 2) that means you have to spend a lot of your tree on crit in order to make it worthwhile, reducing the availability of tankiness. I could be wrong, and maybe there's enough there with dropping sovereignty to have both crit and survivability, but I'm skeptical.

Besides...does this build even do enough damage to justify turning it into a crit build? It seems to me that if you want crit to be effective, you should probably choose a build that has more support for damage dealing in the first place.

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Strongtoni wrote:

What do you guys think of those life nodes left of MoM, 2 8% life, one 12% and golem's blood, are they worth that 2 extra dex points to get to them?

Those are really good nodes, and the Diamond Flesh just below them makes them even better if you need a little extra in resists. But the extra two nodes to get there make it +28% life for 6 nodes, or 4.7% life per node. This is much worse than many of the other clusters where you get around 8% life per node.

Obviously I'm ignoring the value of the other three nodes, but those nodes would have to be worth about +20% life (since 6 nodes is generally worth about +48% life and you're only getting +28% out of it). Getting +20 dex isn't worth much of anything at that point, and I don't think that Golem's Blood is worth +20% life.

So I think that generally, unless you're very late game and don't really have anything better to spend your passive points on, it's probably not worth it.

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Strongtoni wrote:

What do you guys think of those life nodes left of MoM, 2 8% life, one 12% and golem's blood, are they worth that 2 extra dex points to get to them?

If you want to get tankier late game I would recommend going towards "Path of the Warrior" near the Scion start. You get health and a boost to physical damage. You also leave yourself the option to respec out of MoM if you ever obtain a Cloak of Defiance, which will allow you to spend those three points elsewhere.

By far the best build I have played. Enjoyed it so much. I unfortunately died at level 82 to an off screen Rima. Was doing maps up to level 74 with absolutely no issues with map bosses or invaders until I ran a level 70 unidentified Bog map. As soon as she saw me her ice storm dropped and I was dead. I would like to remake the build, but how can that be countered?

So guys I'm building this exact build with a 20% quality EK I found.

I have a few passive tree questions:

1. Why not Inner Force?
2. Why not Sentinel?

Also I'm currently using EK linked with Added Fire, Iron Will and Faster Casting.

What are the other good support gems other than Life Leech and Faster Projectiles?

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elitedesolator wrote:

So guys I'm building this exact build with a 20% quality EK I found.

I have a few passive tree questions:

1. Why not Inner Force?
2. Why not Sentinel?

Also I'm currently using EK linked with Added Fire, Iron Will and Faster Casting.

What are the other good support gems other than Life Leech and Faster Projectiles?

For the first 2 questions i think that there are bigger priority nodes and for last i would suggest trying Fork (for lvling and for big packs it's very good), Culling strike (I love it, yes, i have cull-bear trap-IR for bosses and yellow but i think another culling is very good for this build) and ofc Empower..

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elitedesolator wrote:

1. Why not Inner Force?

First, it's a fairly inefficient node to grab. For three points you get 21% increased buff effect, but for two points you could get 16% (the aura effect nodes next to sovereignty) or a whopping 26% by taking Influence (and the node that comes before it). Inner Force is not worth three points in this build, even if you have Cloak of Defiance.

Second, an increased effect of buffs means Arctic Armour becomes more costly to run.

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2. Why not Sentinel?

Again, not worth the points. You can max out resistances without it and the boost to evasion, while nice when running Grace, is not necessary. Life nodes are more important.

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Also I'm currently using EK linked with Added Fire, Iron Will and Faster Casting.

What are the other good support gems other than Life Leech and Faster Projectiles?

Ek + Added Fire + Life Leech + Faster Casting + Faster Projectiles is pretty much the only way to do a 5L. If you have a 6L, Empower is best for damage, Iron Will is ok if you can stack Strength, and Item Quantity is sweet if you don't need extra damage.

Cool thanks. Makes a lot of sense.

Posting my crappy gear for reference and potential comments.

By the way do you guys think this build should run 4 auras (Discipline, Hatred, Clarity, Grace)?

I can do it, but mana is quite low due to it.

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elitedesolator wrote:

By the way do you guys think this build should run 4 auras (Discipline, Hatred, Clarity, Grace)?

I can do it, but mana is quite low due to it.

Ideally yes, you want to run 4 auras, and you want them to be Haste, Grace, Clarity or Discipline (not both), and Hatred. But getting enough mana regen and mana (you need to stack both on gear) to do so can be tough. By end game, however, you should have no problem running Grace, Clarity, Discipline, and Hatred. Shoot for around 700 unreserved mana when you have 4 auras running. An Alpha's Howl will get you there easily (getting one is another matter, of course).

If you don't have the currency for an Alpha's Howl, you might consider trading your Dream Fragments for one. Maybe I'm crazy here, but I just don't think that ring is worth it. The 20% increased max mana is the only thing it has going for it (and it's not insignificant), but, if you're planning on min/maxing for end game, you'll eventually want a Ming's Heart, and I wouldn't run both Ming's and Dream Fragments since you lose out on resists, cast speed, life...

If you can't get a Ming's Heart, shoot for two rings with mana regen, life, increased cast speed, and resistances (as needed). Mana (as such, or as energy shield) and increased rarity of items are also nice to have.

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Tempada wrote:

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elitedesolator wrote:

By the way do you guys think this build should run 4 auras (Discipline, Hatred, Clarity, Grace)?

I can do it, but mana is quite low due to it.

Ideally yes, you want to run 4 auras, and you want them to be Haste, Grace, Clarity or Discipline (not both), and Hatred. But getting enough mana regen and mana (you need to stack both on gear) to do so can be tough. By end game, however, you should have no problem running Grace, Clarity, Discipline, and Hatred. Shoot for around 700 unreserved mana when you have 4 auras running. An Alpha's Howl will get you there easily (getting one is another matter, of course).

If you don't have the currency for an Alpha's Howl, you might consider trading your Dream Fragments for one. Maybe I'm crazy here, but I just don't think that ring is worth it. The 20% increased max mana is the only thing it has going for it (and it's not insignificant), but, if you're planning on min/maxing for end game, you'll eventually want a Ming's Heart, and I wouldn't run both Ming's and Dream Fragments since you lose out on resists, cast speed, life...

If you can't get a Ming's Heart, shoot for two rings with mana regen, life, increased cast speed, and resistances (as needed). Mana (as such, or as energy shield) and increased rarity of items are also nice to have.

Good advice man thanks.

Hm Haste huh. My impression was that Discipline was necessary cause it enables you to run one more aura. I'm not quite sure how a Haste Grace Clarity Hatred setup would be like. Part of me thinks it's not possible.

I'ma work on better gear. I assume Dream Fragments doesn't really trade for a lot in Ambush?