1.0.0f Patch and Data about League Distributions and Map-only Uniques

I really hope GGG looks at these comments. IMO the problem is high level maps need to drop more often its just amazing to see how much one cost. I was really disappointed that they didn't increase the high map drop rate after the full game was release. :(

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Sybell wrote:

I really hope GGG looks at these comments. IMO the problem is high level maps need to drop more often its just amazing to see how much one cost. I was really disappointed that they didn't increase the high map drop rate after the full game was release. :(

In my old group I remember doing a couple 76-77s all day and kept getting 66 maps was fucking amazing GREAT DESIGN.

I don't have too much of an issue with really great uniques dropping only in higher maps, but I think chancing should have remained the same. Its not like everyone was chancing uniques regularly. I've still never gotten one.

If it wasn't possible to separate them, it should have been left alone. Item gating in an ARPG with a map system as punishing as this one is a terrible idea.

So far people who like these changes:
- Casuals. They've never seen the engame.
- MMO babies. They like trading and have their own 6 man raid group.

Nice hardcore game, bro.

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kamil449 wrote:

can we all please stop calling this "game" an ARPG now? it has moved way beyond that now.

i might aswell sit on facebook all day trying to sell my leftover food.

I agree with your rage over these changes, but not with your behavior..please STFU.

I've responded a couple times to this thread thus far. At first glance it sounded like the gating of these items was a good idea, as did most others--if you judge that by that fact that there was no outburst when it was first announced in the 1.0.0 patch notes that high end uniques would be found in maps only. People agree that maps should be the best place for the best loot.

After reading all the comments and discussing it with Hegemonica, here are some points I would like to put out.

Readability
I don't know how many times the subject of showing ilvl on the item tooltip has come up throughout closed/open betas. Each time it was met with GGG resistance that it was too confusing. The difference between required level to equip and item level was too confusing for players to understand, thus is hidden behind a /itemlevel command.

How is causing even more confusion that certain uniques can only be found at arbitrary item levels--that have no correlation to the level requirement--any more clear? Obviously a rhetorical question; it isn't. The items levels assigned besides the highest tier (78) seems rather rushed and not very well thought out. There is a startling lack of Soul Taker and Bringer of Rain, and the perplexing inclusion of Divinarius and Mon'tregul's Grasp.

The Wall
Everyone knows exactly what this is. I don't have to go into much detail as it's been laid out in black and white for the past months on end discussing how horrible the system of attaining and sustaining high level maps is, with many ideas of solutions to fix it.

Why then has seemingly nothing been done about it? This is a question I can't quite seem to come up with any reasonable, logical answers. It's baffling really. Party play is great, trading is great. So is playing alone. I've done both, for a very long time. I have multiple level 90s across many leagues and have given every penny I can scrounge in support of the vision GGG has had for the game. RNG is not fun when it is the only thing restricting my progression in the game when I am doing everything else right. I have found 2 77s in my entire time playing this game. The skill ceiling for PvE in this game is extremely low. The reliance on nothing other than blind luck is so absurd to the point that it is comical when I think about it.

I have no motivation at the moment to step into the Eternal Laboratory and insert another map. The amount of currency and time I have to spend just to have the chance of getting into a map that has a chance--if you can even call it that--of one of the top tier uniques dropping seems equivalent of winning the lottery, then buying lottery tickets with all of your winnings, and winning the lottery with each of those tickets. Chance is what motivates me to play this game. The chance that I am going to get something for my time spent. Right now, I feel like the chance is so slim it's non-existent.

The Future
Having spoken with many of the employees at Grinding Gear, even playing with some I am fairly confident that these numbers will change, and with a quickness. I think they are level headed enough to realize when they made a mistake this detrimental to the game.

But what if it doesn't? Well I don't really know what to say. I am teetering right now between a feeling of complete frustration and regret. It's hard to put into words what decisions like this came make on players' psyches. If I was the 6L Occ Vest guy that's been doing work, putting consistant and hard earned currency (time) into chancing Shav's, only to have all possibility and past time spent completely nullified, I would probably jump out my window. I can't really in good conscious recommend this game to any of my friends in real life as I know they will have no chance and quit in frustration when it comes time for what should really be fun (end-game). I really want to play this game, I have never played anything nearly as appealing to me as a gamer, and likely never will again, but if these changes are going to stick, I think I need to think about spending my precious time doing something more productive.

-Signed a Proud Diamond / Eternal / Exalted / Regal Supporter

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Caustic2 wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

"

Caustic2 wrote:

According to your account, you've never even made it to endgame. I really don't see why you think your uninformed opinion matters.

You are correct, I have never made it to the "end game" on the normal client. However, that doesn't preclude me from being able to understand that the highest difficulty content = the biggest potential rewards.

Likewise, I am not a professional basketball player, but that doesn't preclude me from understanding that those who are the best at something are typically paid the most to do it.

My point? Experience in a particular matter isn't necessarily a prerequisite for understanding.

Also - please don't flaunt 'reaching the end game' as if it is this monumental achievement only obtainable through tremendous effort. It's merely a time sink, I enjoy making alts.

No, you don't understand the situation at all. This change would be completely fine if it were actually possible to make it to 74+ maps without outright buying maps or insane luck. Basketball players get paid a lot because they are competing at the highest level. Meanwhile, PoE players aren't even given the chance to compete at the highest levels because of horrific map drop rates.

My basketball analogy was used to illustrate a point - that one doesn't need *necessarily* to experience something in order to comment on it - that analogy was used in reaction to those who felt like I had no idea what I was talking about because on the standard client I do not have a fleet of level 80 characters. I did not make the analogy to infer any kind of similarity between basketball players requiring skill and PoE being based purely off of RNG.

Regarding maps -

I have always thought the map system was horrible, I have no idea why they based it off of RNG, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

However, I understand that end-game areas will be where one finds end-game items. A lot of folks were complaining about that, which is why I started commenting. Note I never said "the map system is fine stop QQ" I said that I wasn't surprised that the best items were in the hardest areas.

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dspair wrote:

So far people who like these changes:
- Casuals. They've never seen the engame.
- MMO babies. They like trading and have their own 6 man raid group.

Nice hardcore game, bro.

I think you have it backwards. If anything, these changes benefit the extremely hardcore players. Casual players might agree with the change because they are able to take a step back and agree with the general philosophy of these change, but the change won't benefit them.

Got a response from Chris regarding these changes.

"

Aux wrote:

I've responded a couple times to this thread thus far. At first glance it sounded like the gating of these items was a good idea, as did most others--if you judge that by that fact that there was no outburst when it was first announced in the 1.0.0 patch notes that high end uniques would be found in maps only. People agree that maps should be the best place for the best loot.

After reading all the comments and discussing it with Hegemonica, here are some points I would like to put out.

Readability
I don't know how many times the subject of showing ilvl on the item tooltip has come up throughout closed/open betas. Each time it was met with GGG resistance that it was too confusing. The difference between required level to equip and item level was too confusing for players to understand, thus is hidden behind a /itemlevel command.

How is causing even more confusion that certain uniques can only be found at arbitrary item levels--that have no correlation to the level requirement--any more clear? Obviously a rhetorical question; it isn't. The items levels assigned besides the highest tier (78) seems rather rushed and not very well thought out. There is a startling lack of Soul Taker and Bringer of Rain, and the perplexing inclusion of Divinarius and Mon'tregul's Grasp.

The Wall
Everyone knows exactly what this is. I don't have to go into much detail as it's been laid out in black and wjote for the past months on end discussing how horrible the system of attaining and sustaining high level maps is, with many ideas of solutions to fix it.

Why then has seemingly nothing been done about it? This is a question I can't quite seem to come up with any reasonable, logical answers. It's baffling really. Party play is great, trading is great. So is playing alone. I've done both, for a very long time. I have multiple level 90s across many leagues and have given every penny I can scrounge in support of the vision GGG has had for the game. RNG is not fun when it is the only thing restricting my progression in the game when I am doing everything else right. I have found 2 77s in my entire time playing this game. The skill ceiling for PvE in this game is extremely low. The reliance on nothing other than blind luck is so absurd to the point that it is comical when I think about it.

I have no motivation at the moment to step into the Eternal Laboratory and insert another map. The amount of currency and time I have to spend just to have the chance of getting into a map that has a chance--if you can even call it that--of one of the top tier uniques dropping seems equivalent of winning the lottery, then buying lottery tickets with all of your winnings, and winning the lottery with each of those tickets. Chance is what motivates me to play this game. The chance that I am going to get something for my time spent. Right now, I feel like the chance is so slim it's non-existent.

The Future
Having spoken with many of the employees at Grinding Gear, even playing with some I am fairly confident that these numbers will change, and with a quickness. I think they are level headed enough to realize when they made a mistake this detrimental to the game.

But what if it doesn't? Well I don't really know what to say. I am teetering right now between a feeling of complete frustration and regret. It's hard to put into words what decisions like this came make on players' psyches. I can't really in good conscious recommend this game to any of my friends in real life as I know they will have no chance and quit in frustration when it comes time for what should really be fun (end-game). I really want to play this game, I have never played anything nearly as appealing to me as a gamer, and likely never will again, but if these changes are going to stick, I think I need to think about spending my precious time doing something more productive.

-Signed a Proud Diamond / Eternal Supporter

thank you for taking the time to say all of that :)
i hope if GGG reads anything.. its this.