[1.0.4]Scion - Incinerate Tank - Mind over Matter, EB, almost Max Block | Facetank a lot of stuff

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Gully wrote:

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templer10 wrote:

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Gully wrote:

i have no idea why in hell i should remove fire pen and use the marginal upgrade of added cold damage in favor of a tool tip dps increase, but thanks anyways.

since added cold isn't a marginal increase.

base damage for incinerate level 20 is 68-102 fire per cast (170/2=90 average) - added cold is 88-132 (110 avrage)* 30% (damage effectiveness) = 33 - compared to the base damage of the incinirate (90) it's 36% MORE damage.

Ofc its 36% more damage, in the stage zero, but thats not the point. the damage increase melts in the face of the last stage. fire penetration gives (in the bare minimum) 35% more damage and even more if the mobs have fire resistance. i have no numeric values for the possible maximum resistance of a mob with the mods, but it just gets exponentially better the more resistance a mob has.

in combination with elemental weakness i can run fire resistance and ee maps with ease without even noticing the resistances.

dont get me wrong, added chaos damage is in my opinion a strong option. but the rest is just a tooltip dps increase which is marginal.

The MORE multiples applies to Added Cold just like it applies to the base damage of the spell. As for Equilibrium maps, that might be true, but it's not really an issue, since Added Chaos is so strong.

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Gully wrote:

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templer10 wrote:

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Gully wrote:

i have no idea why in hell i should remove fire pen and use the marginal upgrade of added cold damage in favor of a tool tip dps increase, but thanks anyways.

since added cold isn't a marginal increase.

base damage for incinerate level 20 is 68-102 fire per cast (170/2=90 average) - added cold is 88-132 (110 avrage)* 30% (damage effectiveness) = 33 - compared to the base damage of the incinirate (90) it's 36% MORE damage.

Ofc its 36% more damage, in the stage zero, but thats not the point. the damage increase melts in the face of the last stage. fire penetration gives (in the bare minimum) 35% more damage and even more if the mobs have fire resistance. i have no numeric values for the possible maximum resistance of a mob with the mods, but it just gets exponentially better the more resistance a mob has.

in combination with elemental weakness i can run fire resistance and ee maps with ease without even noticing the resistances.

dont get me wrong, added chaos damage is in my opinion a strong option. but the rest is just a tooltip dps increase which is marginal.

It is true that for fire resist mobs the fire penetration doubles (or more) the fire dmg per hit. This may look interesting, but it is a more multiplier of only 25% of the base fire hit! On the contrary, added chaos is a more multiplier on the initial hit (36%ish as calculated in the previous post), making added chaos still do more dmg, even for fire resistant mobs. Only for high fire and chaos resist mobs, fire pen will be beneficial, I would guess.

I also think that projectile weakness (30-40% more dmg) also synergizes well with the added chaos support, as both the fire and chaos dmg get multiplied. Specially for bosses, the knock back is marginal, keeping them in shot gun range, yet letting them miss occasionally!

Just my two cents....

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jdegrooth wrote:

It is true that for fire resist mobs the fire penetration doubles (or more) the fire dmg per hit. This may look interesting, but it is a more multiplier of only 25% of the base fire hit! On the contrary, added chaos is a more multiplier on the initial hit (36%ish as calculated in the previous post), making added chaos still do more dmg, even for fire resistant mobs. Only for high fire and chaos resist mobs, fire pen will be beneficial, I would guess.

I also think that projectile weakness (30-40% more dmg) also synergizes well with the added chaos support, as both the fire and chaos dmg get multiplied. Specially for bosses, the knock back is marginal, keeping them in shot gun range, yet letting them miss occasionally!
Just my two cents....

im curious, how do you know that the added xyz stuff gets also multiplied by incinerate ? im not sure, so i supposed it would not.

if youre right, than that would change the whole stuff, thats right. :D

short answer - it does - i tested it.

longer answer - added chaos adds to the spell damage and the incinirate MORE modifier works on all spell damage.

oh - and added chaos is more then a 36% MORE modifier - the 36% was for added cold which is much weaker.

I love this build so much :)
started 3 days ago.. currently lvl 79 and basically i just have one thing to tell everyone that will make them super fcking happy.

basically i was upset when reading that you cant really stack shock with this build as the dmg of incinerate would be too small.... SOOOOO

i linked Q20 added lightning dmg + elemental prolif to my tempest shield... and BLAMMM

technically i have 10% chance to shock + 6% from crit chance... and even with this minimal chance i am shock stacking all mobs... literally everything is shocked lol its some huge dps boost..

in 3 more lvls i will grab static blows + extra 10 chance to shock...

only downside to this is tempest shield reserves 30% mana now.. but its a worthy trade off in my opinion...

with that extra 20% chance to shock i will soon have... WOW just WOOW is all i can say xD

try it out people!!!! you will DEFINITELY NOT REGRET IT :D !!!

tank with 2600hp? and you show a bunch of 67 maps?

i dont usually come to the forums for a laugh

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

tank with 2600hp? and you show a bunch of 67 maps?

i dont usually come to the forums for a laugh

its funny cause you dont know how to do maths xD
fair enough 2.6k is low.. but thats due to him having rubbish life on gear..
im running this build atm and am lvl 81 with 3k hp.. planning to get around 4.5k - 5k by the time i reach lvl 93

ANYWAYS on to the maths topic...

basically lets start here...
lightning coil 40% phy dmg as lightning... 75% light resist gives 30% PERMANENT phy dmg reduction.
then we move on to MoM... another 30% damage reduction...
then we move onto armour.. 20% phy dmg reduction...
then we go onto AA....

do you get my point? with this build we have around 80% damage reduction...
on top of that almost instant full life.

OHH did i forget to mention 78% block and 75% spell block?

ohh and did i forget to mention that i recently made an upgrade to this build by linking 20/20 added light + ele prolif + tempest shield + static blows and 10% shock...

im tanking everything and shock stacking whole screen... by just blocking.

please please next time.. do the maths :)
what hits you for 10k dmg.. hits us for 2k dmg... so there we go.

ohh also to answer some other guys theory about DoT raping this build... ahemmm... almost anything can land a crit on me with puncture and i can run about while seeing 1 life go up and down... thats just from my regen...

but like i said.. im grabbing the whole circle of 10 HP nodes soon for some extra life.

besides.. where are all your characters?? seems like your account just has 400 posts and 0 chars... have you ever even played this game to be talking shit? LOL you nablet.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

tank with 2600hp? and you show a bunch of 67 maps?

i dont usually come to the forums for a laugh

also before you get on the subject... i have been soloing up to 76 maps the past day and everything is perfectly fine.. nothing has gone wrong.. havent died..
been facetanking all the bosses...
i have no idea why people like to hate so much...

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kamil449 wrote:

basically lets start here...
lightning coil 40% phy dmg as lightning... 75% light resist gives 30% PERMANENT phy dmg reduction.
then we move on to MoM... another 30% damage reduction...
then we move onto armour.. 20% phy dmg reduction...
then we go onto AA....

do you get my point? with this build we have around 80% damage reduction...
on top of that almost instant full life.

OHH did i forget to mention 78% block and 75% spell block?

go up against -max extra dmg piety, crem boss, dominus, extra dmg no regen jungle valley, torture chamber boss, or just really hard maps in general with this joke char and come talk to me again.

I'd like to see you get 80% reduction vs dominus touch of god ... some nice bs theorycraft math you got there

MOM is really awesome when you got so much little available mana to tank hits and most of that mana is being used for AA or spamming your skill, yeah and dont forget really gg on half / no regen maps too.

AA is cute but shit against big hits. 20% physical reduction is just character screen, did you start playing yday ... who you calling nablet? ironic!

talking about my chars, has a random 85 level shadow with no recent playtime on poestatistics / double ironic facepalm ... yeah you playing them 76 maps indeed brah

Hate bs claims like 'super tank' when i know said character will fall if its windy and a leaf blows against him lol / rant

Ancalagon is totally 100% wrong. This build is very, very tanky. Much more so than my marauder with 6.5k life. I think he must have never made a build with high block or AA/MoM if he's discounting their utility.
Ive played up to 78 maps and this build is a beast. There's a lot more to being "tanky" than having high life and armor, and this build is a great example of alternative defensive techniques working well together.


I run a variant of the build that has 3.6k tooltip dps on incinerate with GMP. It melts everything. It is also INSANE FOR PVP!

I just made a guide for it if anyone feels like checking it out:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/766094/page/1/#p6659617

Thanks to the OP of this thread for getting me started with some great ideas.

Also whoever else is running tempest shield with ele prolif and shock - I agree, it is awesome! Packs of ranged monsters are shock stacked way before you even get to them!