Mortal Conviction - Another Look

I don't think removing BM is the answer at all. It is a decent passive which allows alternative play styles. This is a good thing.

MC is useless where it is and I think if they changed the passives behind BM to be heavily life oriented, and nothing else, it would be a good step in the right direction.

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bendot wrote:

I don't think removing BM is the answer at all. It is a decent passive which allows alternative play styles. This is a good thing.

MC is useless where it is and I think if they changed the passives behind BM to be heavily life oriented, and nothing else, it would be a good step in the right direction.

The problem is that as long as BM doesn't get 2-3 free auras nobody in this community is going to be hapy short of getting "+30% MORE damage and defense".

As long as the blood magic gem exists mana is a better option because 3 "free" auras can and will be better than a gem link.

Thus, either BM needs to trivialize 3 auras when you get it, or it might as well be removed. It's certainly a viable keystone, but only in group play under the assumption that you can get your "necessary" auras from allies, in solo play it will ALWAYS be inferior to mana unless it is made to be strictly and brokenly superior at managing auras.

If there was some additional life nodes behind it. It would make sense. I've always liked the idea of a BM VP build. Use LL, get like 20%+ leech.

Only really need one aura per map/boss, and that's the main element.

My point is, there should be decent passives behind BM, so that a BM user doesn't need any auras.

You could put Iron Will or similar behind BM.

Or you could put a passive that converts a % of your hp into damage.

Or you could add a % more maximum life, exactly the same as the one behind CI.

Or you could have something different like 10% more Strength passive.

Forget auras, pretend that someone running BM doesn't want auras. They want hp/strength based buffs.

If you wanted, you could have a passive that shares a % of your hp regen with nearby party members. It would scale with YOUR hp and regen, and you could have assistive passives beside it, like more hp.

Allowing BM to convert mana to life would be too OP, in combination with Eldritch Battery. Rare Vaal Regalias would become super-Kaom's.

MC could maybe go to 50% less, but not further (and not *any* "reduced"). MC at 50% would be enough to make "Shavronne's Conviction" builds the best at pure Auramancer, but that would involve a convoluted passive tree and be only slightly superior to the non-MC Shavronne's + Prism Guardian pure Auramancer build. Since non-pure Auramancers, who don't travel for the aura cluster by BM, are generally stronger than hyper-dedicated Auramancers anyway, it shouldn't be OP... but that's a forecast, not a guarantee. If I was in charge I'd still try it because a little OP is a good thing, allows players to feel powerful... but I'd watch the metagame closely afterwards. And 60+% less is just obviously too OP.

MC's job is to encourage meaningful choice in BM builds to attempt to get an aura (or auras). Its job is not to provide them for free, or to ensure BM builds have the same aura options as non-BM builds. I'm all for MC being as strong as we can get away with but I don't feel even slightly that BM builds are entitled to the same aura options as non-BM builds. The key to good balance is not to give all builds the same things, but to give them all different things which sum up to approximately the same power levels. If typical BM builds (non-Shavronne's Conviction) are underpowered, then the answer is to give them something, but the answer is not to give them auras. Not to mention that the whole aura problem becomes moot in group play with decent auramancer support, in the same way and for the same reasons that personal MF becomes irrelevant in group play with Culling MF support.

The one thing I'd totally change is the Blood Magic support gem, making it a partial conversion instead of a full one. One possibility: constant 220% cost multiplier, 70% mana cost converted to life at level 1 (100 mana cost becomes 154 life and 66 mana), 89% at level 20 (100 cost becomes 196 life and 24 mana). This conversion ratio system would ensure that the BM keystone has a unique niche, since users of the support gem would still have mana requirements (even if greatly reduced ones).

I think they will be reluctant to make a big change about MC even if it makes no sense for them not to do it. Here is why:
Big chunk of the game is balanced around shavrones, soul taker and lvl 95+. Very small chunk of players can afford this. Very big chunk of players is screwed over this.
I just cannot fathom that they didn't know what are they doing when they were making shavs. It is obvious, use life for auras and RF + PA, use mana for more auras. If they were fine with it, why all this aura changes? Shavs can still run 5+ auras easy, not much changed for them, it's just the "poor" folk that got hit...again. (Personally, I don't care about auras too much, lie someone said before, one is needed per map/boss, rest is just a bonus, but still, I liked when my shadow was running discipline, wrath, hatred and grace, but that is a wet dream now for CI that is not lvl 90+ and doesn't have shavs)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If typical BM builds (non-Shavronne's Conviction) are underpowered, then the answer is to give them something, but the answer is not to give them auras. Not to mention that the whole aura problem becomes moot in group play with decent auramancer support, in the same way and for the same reasons that personal MF becomes irrelevant in group play with Culling MF support.

Exactly this.

The really awkward position of MC is trying to couple two unconnected systems: Blood magic and aura use.

They really need to be decoupled, which is why I keep insisting on MC to be removed completely or put somewhere totally different on the skill tree.

Blood Magic should have assistive passives that augment the idea of 'blood'. HP, regen, using life for damage, support based on life etc. We've already seen some very decent aura-exempt ideas in this thread alone.

Blood Magic and auras are two completely different parts of the game. It's a real shame that because of the location of MC, it's all too easy to fall into the trap of trying to give BM characters auras, when what the really need is life based bonuses.

Bottom line is that with the new aura changes post-release, it's made auras mutually exclusive with BM. GGG has increased the cost of auras by so much that you couldn't possibly use an aura with BM even with MC. At least I'd rather go without than with, and I save a passive point by virtue of not taking MC.

Either make BM stronger and make it unrelated to auras, or make MC stronger to allow comfortable use of a single aura. Otherwise, BM will continue to sit in its sorry state of a keystone that most players won't use due to the power of auras and the BM/ML supports. Did I ever mention how I hate the current state of mana in this game?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Allowing BM to convert mana to life would be too OP, in combination with Eldritch Battery. Rare Vaal Regalias would become super-Kaom's.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my suggestion, which was to convert the base mana your character comes with and gets as it levels to life, and only that. Mana mods/passives wouldn't affect it in any way. But yes, straight conversion of mana to life is a bad idea and horribly unbalanced.

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Ludak021 wrote:

I think they will be reluctant to make a big change about MC even if it makes no sense for them not to do it. Here is why:
Big chunk of the game is balanced around shavrones, soul taker and lvl 95+. Very small chunk of players can afford this. Very big chunk of players is screwed over this.
I just cannot fathom that they didn't know what are they doing when they were making shavs. It is obvious, use life for auras and RF + PA, use mana for more auras. If they were fine with it, why all this aura changes? Shavs can still run 5+ auras easy, not much changed for them, it's just the "poor" folk that got hit...again. (Personally, I don't care about auras too much, lie someone said before, one is needed per map/boss, rest is just a bonus, but still, I liked when my shadow was running discipline, wrath, hatred and grace, but that is a wet dream now for CI that is not lvl 90+ and doesn't have shavs)

A big chunk of the game? Like what?

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bendot wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If typical BM builds (non-Shavronne's Conviction) are underpowered, then the answer is to give them something, but the answer is not to give them auras. Not to mention that the whole aura problem becomes moot in group play with decent auramancer support, in the same way and for the same reasons that personal MF becomes irrelevant in group play with Culling MF support.

Exactly this.

The really awkward position of MC is trying to couple two unconnected systems: Blood magic and aura use.

They really need to be decoupled, which is why I keep insisting on MC to be removed completely or put somewhere totally different on the skill tree.

Blood Magic should have assistive passives that augment the idea of 'blood'. HP, regen, using life for damage, support based on life etc. We've already seen some very decent aura-exempt ideas in this thread alone.

Blood Magic and auras are two completely different parts of the game. It's a real shame that because of the location of MC, it's all too easy to fall into the trap of trying to give BM characters auras, when what the really need is life based bonuses.

The problem is balancing the lack of auras with other benefits. Lacking auras has a significant effect on solo play but means diddly squat in organized group play; thus, by its nature, BM-keystone builds will always be weak(er) solo and strong(er) in group. This is something BM-keystone critics need to understand.

In terms of pure solo, I think the best we can do is preventing the BM support gem from being too functionally similar to BM keystone; give the two some kind of difference despite the obviously similar intent.

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Islidox wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Allowing BM to convert mana to life would be too OP, in combination with Eldritch Battery. Rare Vaal Regalias would become super-Kaom's.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my suggestion, which was to convert the base mana your character comes with and gets as it levels to life, and only that. Mana mods/passives wouldn't affect it in any way. But yes, straight conversion of mana to life is a bad idea and horribly unbalanced.

That type of conversion doesn't exist. Converting mana to life means all forms of mana, and all mana-effecting bonuses.