Is Path of Exile as addictive as Diablo 2?
" Hence the wording "build testers". I'm not saying that completed builds should all be able to beat the toughest map bosses. Just that they should be able to reach them on their own and see how they hold up. |
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" This ^^^^ I play in a gaming community that called any rune higher than what could drop on Hell Hellforge "theoretical". This was due to the near impossibility that any amount of play time would allow a "legit" player to see anything higher than that actually drop in the game. I can't recall ever having seen a BotD weapon in any of our community games, because there was no way for any single player to obtain Zod without botting/duping or trading with a botter/duper. Yeah, we are kind of uptight when it comes to playing "clean". The highest runeword I ever used was "White"(? the one for bonemancers, wand only). I doubt my enjoyment of the game suffered at all due to not having Enigma, BotD, etc. I find any argument related to perceived difficulty of leveling characters in PoE after having one viable build for maps to be less than genuine. If you can build map viable toons and can't level a toon to 60+ in about 12 hours of play then that is a player issue, not a game issue. I will not argue that is not a difference between "map-ready" and "end-game optimal", I will posit that too many players do not understand the difference, and believe that the latter is a requirement as opposed to a goal. EDIT: To avoid double posting and to respond to Novalisks comment on "build testers": So, what if your build is so crappy that you can't even get through Cruel Docks? Should we still give that player a chance to see how badly their build will fail in maps? You seem to be arguing that all "tests" will meet with a minimum level of success, which is simply not true. Last edited by Sinnesteuer#7507 on Jan 24, 2014, 10:48:12 AM
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" Obviously not. Thing is that players can't reach top map bosses not because their builds are crappy, but because of bad luck. |
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" Right, that's your argument.... I can't help but reject it out of hand. The fact of the matter is that a lot of players are not capable of building viable toons for late game content without someone posting a build/gear guide ahead of time that can be followed by unskilled, mouth-breathing neckbeards. The ability to copy cat/cookie cutter is not equivalent to being a good player. I am sure that there are some players that are not able to reach certain content on some builds due to getting RNG'd, but that is not the same as the blanket statement I bolded. And, if you decide that you are going to work a build that requires a specific gear load-out prior to obtaining that gear, you only have yourself to blame, not the game. The issue, as I see it, has so much to do with how truly broken the entire "economy" of D2 by the time so many of you kids got into it. Because of the rampant dupes/bots, and the willingness to take advantage of their existence, there were no restrictions on what you could theorycraft, and you deem that to be a "norm". (note, I use the term "kids" here not as an insult, most of you are "kids" to those of us 40+) Those of us that played without that access have a very different experience, and find that PoE is more similar to our memories of D2 than your memories. |
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that isnt entirely accurate. back in vanilla d1 , i can agree to the whole restricted access thing.
but then again it was also very easy for a single class to solo all the content. but then blizzard added the monster immunity system in hell while simultaneously adding the passive bonus system to the skill tree (ie ice bolt buffed frozen orb etc etc) which encouraged specializing and punished diversifying heavily. the only way most classes could get around that barrier was 1 play a damage type largely unaffected (hammerdins oh my all them hammerdins) 2 play phyiscal and avoid ghosts like the black death. 3or get the game mechanic defying uber loot. like infinity which was the only way a mono elemental class could run baal without having to skip instances or cheese past mobs. so in a sense it was blizzards own damn fault for setting up a system that so heavily pointed to the uber items as the only viable means to solo content for specific classes. i am confident the duping scene would have been less important , if not for that artificially created necessity . prior to those changes however , most builds could in good confidence get to end game and stay in end game. at the very least the mortality rate of viable builds in end game was no where near as high in vanilla d2 than it is in lod or poe. Last edited by Saltychipmunk#1430 on Jan 24, 2014, 11:52:58 AM
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" Being a bad player and/or having a bad build is fine, as long as the game presents that to the player with a clear message that something is wrong (death/near death experience). With map drop rates being out of whack, what you get is bad players putting the blame on RNG, and good players getting snuffed out of being able to test their build against the top map bosses. " Limiting interesting builds to the rich is a big no-no. Limiting power items to the rich is fine, but builds? For example, are you happy with low-life builds only working for rich people? " I played D2 at release. Spare me the kid talk. " The expensive items in D2 were not build enablers, apart from a select few (Enigma is the only one that springs to mind) which were introduced at a relatively late point in the game's history. Most of the expensive uniques/runewords were power items. Last edited by Novalisk#3583 on Jan 24, 2014, 2:34:14 PM
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" Builds have nothing to do with "getting rng'd" PoE is the only game I know, where content progression is luck-dependent. Even after you spend in-game currency on your content (roll maps), you still need to be lucky to get more content (map drops). This has nothing to do with your build or your gear. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Jan 24, 2014, 2:33:22 PM
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" Once development has ceased, and there are no more plans for new acts/areas to be released, then your argument will be valid. If it still holds water at that time, of course. Not that you are confusing "content" with "character" or anything. I mean, I am pretty sure that any competent build will see every map available, even if it means they pay an orb or two "admission" fee. That's "content", and even then it isn't truly "content progression", as it does not advance the story. Character "progression" is "dependant" upon NOTHING. If it were 100% impossible to level to 100 without using maps (which it isn't, just nobody wants to think about doing nothing but Catacombs runs endlessly from 68 - 100, that it is improbable does not mean it is impossible), then you may have an argument, but you don't. QQ about your RNG moar. |
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" I'm happy with the knowledge that rich people vacation in places I could never afford, and that my family enjoys ourselves quite well on the vacations we enjoy to place far less expensive. Don't get me wrong, though, if I were to get lucky and "hit it big" in some way (not going to happen, I don't avail myself of those opportunities) I am sure that some idiotically extravagant vacation would get planned, just to have had the experience. I fully expect to be called to task for attempting to draw an analogy to anything in real life and a video game, as we can't possibly create examples in order to attempt to display differences or to make a point.... |
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" You mean like in 10 years content progression will not be luck-dependent anymore? Ok, Ill wait.. :P Ofc. you can casually buy your way into maps, but that is not content progression. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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