Why the nerf to gem upgrades?

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Malice wrote:

I don't think gem quality is intended as one of those "high impact" things. It's more just giving people something to grind away at at end game. 7% attack speed is still more than 2 (non-notable) passives worth.

But as explained, GGG could design for higher impact here while the end result, the power of a fully upgraded gem and the time it takes to get there, stay the same.

For example, at the endgame you don't slowly grind your way from 5 linked to 6 linked sockets through increasing the number of links by increments of 1% in your gear - you either have 5 or 6 linked sockets and the latter is a massive upgrade which you can feel immediately. Using an orb of fusing to get 6 linked sockets is probably a moment you will never forget.
Of course, the true grind is concealed in aquiring a massive number of fusings, but it's the same as consistent gold drops vs occasional orb drops: occasional spikes in improving your character or ingame wealth feel much better than slowly grinding your way up through 1% (or now even 0,35%) increases.

Qarl, if these changes were mostly needed for consistency reasons, I fear the whole idea of gem quality in PoE needs a massive redesign in order to make it something memorable and on par with the other brilliant systems in the game.

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dust7 wrote:

Qarl, if these changes were mostly needed for consistency reasons, I fear the whole idea of gem quality in PoE needs a massive redesign in order to make it something memorable and on par with the other brilliant systems in the game.

signed.

I can't tell if the recent change is a bad one or not, I have little to no experience with quality gems. Most of my gems are 0-random quality, only one of my characters ever had 20% on main attacks and few support gems and it wasn't a 'crit' build.

But I don't think the gem quality system is wrong or needs a complete redesign, maybe just some more balancing. It is quite unique and fun already. What is your idea of this 'massive redesign'?

Well, I am sure GGG could come up with something better than the current state of the gem quality system. Some random ideas which might work:

• Drastically increase the effect of a single GCP (edit: for example +5% quality per GCP), but lower their drop rate.
• Make GCPs randomly upgrade a gem. This would make mid-quality gems more common but 20% quality gems rarer.
• Remove gem quality altogether but let GCPs add a random property to an active skill gem, such as +20 fire damage or +10% IIR. Allow gems to be randomly upgraded up to four times. 'Fully' upgrading a gem would only cost 4 GCPs, but getting your desired combination of mods would be something to strife for in the endgame.
• Greatly increase the effect of a single GCP but adjust the problematic gems (like IAS) accordingly.
• Give GCPs diminishing returns, so at least the first two or three have a noticeable effect on a gem.

Just a few, unpolished ideas, but I would prefer any of them over 0,35% upgrades.

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dust7 wrote:

Well, I am sure GGG could come up with something better than the current state of the gem quality system. Some random ideas which might work:

• Drastically increase the effect of a single GCP, but lower their drop rate.
• Make GCPs randomly upgrade a gem. This would make mid-quality gems more common but 20% quality gems rarer.
• Remove gem quality altogether but let GCPs add a random property to an active skill gem, such as +20 fire damage or +10% IIR. Allow gems to be randomly upgraded up to four times. 'Fully' upgrading a gem would only cost 4 GCPs, but getting your desired combination of mods would be something to strife for in the endgame.
• Greatly increase the effect of a single GCP but adjust the problematic gems (like IAS) accrodingly.
• Give GCPs diminishing returns, so at least the first two or three have a noticeable effect on a gem.

Just a few, unpolished ideas, but I would prefer any of them over 0,35% upgrades.

Yes.

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dust7 wrote:

Qarl, if these changes were mostly needed for consistency reasons, I fear the whole idea of gem quality in PoE needs a massive redesign in order to make it something memorable and on par with the other brilliant systems in the game.

This.

Look at Jonathan's video. He speaks of making meaningful upgrades. Aside from the possible exception of increased attack speed gem, none of the gem upgrades have the tiniest bit of 'wow' factor for me.

Given the current rarity of GCP drops, I'd say anyone who uses one as intended instead of for trade is a fool.

I think they should scrap GCP as they are and make them into chance orbs for skill gems.

So "quality" gems don't come with x% anymore but with random mods that can only spawn on gems. And GCPs are used to give these mods to gems with a random chance it turns a gem into a blue one or yellow one (maybe even a unique in the future). Of course better mods on the gems will be needed and looked for.

Now the trick is to not have a alteration/chaos type for gems. You get to roll their mods once with GCP and that is it. Then you need to find another gem of the same kind, level it and roll its mods.

This will make GCP actually worth something and they will be used. And trade for gems without mods, especially high level ones will become alive.

This would at once solve two problems, the other being the gem vendor asked for by people who don't know what to do with all the extra no quality gems while not wanting to turn them into identify scraps.

I know originally GGG wanted people to level gems and trade them but this is not happening currently.

People are selling leveled gems (as long as they have quality)

The devs have also stated they are working on a gem sink.

I use GCPs myself as do others. The effects can be quite impressive on some gems.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

People are selling leveled gems (as long as they have quality)

The devs have also stated they are working on a gem sink.

I use GCPs myself as do others. The effects can be quite impressive on some gems.

Key word is quality. My suggestion would make non quality high level gems be worth something.

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dust7 wrote:

Well, I am sure GGG could come up with something better than the current state of the gem quality system. Some random ideas which might work:

• Drastically increase the effect of a single GCP (edit: for example +5% quality per GCP), but lower their drop rate.
• Make GCPs randomly upgrade a gem. This would make mid-quality gems more common but 20% quality gems rarer.
[b]
• Remove gem quality altogether but let GCPs add a random property to an active skill gem, such as +20 fire damage or +10% IIR. Allow gems to be randomly upgraded up to four times. 'Fully' upgrading a gem would only cost 4 GCPs, but getting your desired combination of mods would be something to strife for in the endgame.
[/b]
• Greatly increase the effect of a single GCP but adjust the problematic gems (like IAS) accordingly.
• Give GCPs diminishing returns, so at least the first two or three have a noticeable effect on a gem.

Just a few, unpolished ideas, but I would prefer any of them over 0,35% upgrades.

I'm a big user of gcp myself too real late game but I like this idea. Giving random properties to gems would add even more varieties to builds which never hurts.